More Off-Season Speculation: Playing Time
Created: 9/30/2014 2:20:22 PMReplies: 31
9/30/2014 2:20:22 PM - The MV
With this team's added depth and differing opinions on this board regarding who should be contributing how much, this ought to be fun/provoke some nasty debates. Exxcluding overtime, how do you think ML will be dividing up on average his 200 minutes per game? Let's refrain from percentages (whole numbers please) and make sure you're numbers add up to 200.
Paul J. 15
9/30/2014 2:29:38 PM - GW Alum Abroad
Looking to bring back Colonials Shuffle? It was fun to play but i was never any good at it.
9/30/2014 2:34:07 PM - CH
Garino - 32
Larsen - 30
Joe Mac - 30
Savage - 28
Kopriva - 18
Paul - 15
Yuta - 15
Cimino - 12
Griffin - 12
Bryant - 8
9/30/2014 4:10:27 PM - BM
9/30/2014 4:18:26 PM - Poog
Ah the Colonials Shuffle! Easily the best fan thing we've ever had going here.
9/30/2014 4:21:17 PM - ziiC
I think we're gonna see Savage get some minutes at the point, and if he's physically 100%, I can see him being the high mpg man. He's gonna be Zeek and Savage, all in one body this year, health permitting. I also expect some 3 and even 4 guard sets, moving the ball fast to get a 3 for Griffin or a stuff for Kethan or Garino.
This is going to be a crazy year: the early season is less about getting work for newbies than about getting quality wins and on-court time for the guys ML sees as indispensable subs. Most of us whill be pulling our hair while some of this goes on, and our individual favorites may get slighted.
i;m hoping GW goes 9-10 deep. it seems possible
surprise-McCoy gets plenty of time. ML sees something in him, and after two years, he'll be in shape
9/30/2014 5:03:23 PM - BM
Lonergan went 9/10 deep (10ish minutes or more) his last two seasons at Vermont, where he presumably had all his own players.
9/30/2014 6:06:05 PM - bobo
For non blowout games:
- Lonergan will stick with size at the PF/C spots giving extended minutes to freshmen Cimino and Yuta plus additional time for Kopriva.
9/30/2014 6:26:29 PM - ziik
You may be right Bobo. Size does matter. But few teams outside of the traditional powers have skilled athletic size of the traditional 2-3 big men up front variety. And we don't yet know exactly what GW has with our size: its tall, but its also, mostly, inexperienced. That's why I think we'll see Larsen, Garino, and a passel of guards from time to time. Just a guess, but I think we''ll see a fair number of non-traditional lineups, as ML confounds the opposition with the slew of options he has at his disposal.
Of course, If Kopriva or McCoy become the 25mpg plus big men that we'd all love to see, great. Yuta? Yep. he looks like he's big enough, and he seems to have learned the most important lesson of offensive-big man basketball: the basket never moves. He attacks the rim. But, can he defend? rebound?
9/30/2014 6:50:14 PM - Omar Comin'
9/30/2014 10:57:00 PM - Long Suffering Fan
I was going to start a similar thread whereby I was going to state that the "core 4" plus Kopriva would receive 130 minutes a game and ask where the remaining 70 are going to come from. Anyway, for my 70, here I go:
Couple of issues to remain to be seen:
-can Kopriva stay on the floor for 15-20 minutes and give us adequate scoring? If not, his minutes are down and Yuta/Cimino/Swan's minutes are up. On the other hand, look for Cimino/Swan's minutes to be even lower if they do not rebound (we already know how ML feels about players who don't rebound...he doesn't care for them very much).
-Can Griffin defend? If yes, look for his minutes to go up? If not, may not get even 13 minutes per game (depending on the situation, of course).
-I may have been a little stingy with Bryant's minutes.
-How will Joe Mac be used? I am fairly sure that he will see minutes at the "2". (He is probably the best shooting guard on the team) If it is alot of minutes, the look for an increase in Jorgensen's minutes,
Of course all this does not factor (1) players out by injury; (2) players limited by injury; (3) the rate of development of the frosh.
10/1/2014 9:29:01 AM - bobo
I hope Joe Mac isn't the best shooting guard on the team next year. He's a 6-1 guard who's averaged 7 and 8 pts respectively in his 2 years at GW and has hit a total of just 35 3pt shots in 2 years. He's an above average PG in the A10 but would be just an average SG in the league. I do think they will give time to Savage and Jorgensen at the PG spot to create different looks but McDonald is best suited at the 1 spot normally.
Griffin is the best shooter on the team and I think will earn minutes with his 3pt production.
10/1/2014 9:41:44 AM - Free Quebec
I expect Yuta's minutes to be higher than any of these projections. I'll say:
KevLar 32 (could be more or less depending on foul trouble)
Joe Mac 28
- I originally had Larsen for less, but I didn't want to bump Cimino up any more, and it's hard to imagine we play too many minutes with neither on the court. If he's not in foul trouble and he's healthy, he's the one guy we can't take off the court for very long.
- I had Joe for more originially, but I think given the guard depth, ML will try to keep him as fresh as possible. I could actually see Joe's minutes being lower than this in the first half of the season just to keep him fresh and healthy.
- Yuta, as I said, probably plays starter minutes in different spots on the frontcourt. Maybe even takes the job from Kopriva, but i bet ML will stick with Kopriva in the starting lineup as long as possible, even if Yuta gets more minutes.
- I say Bryant and Jorgs play low double digit minutes, with their PT fluctuating as matchups, foul trouble, and the play of the starters dictates.
- Cimino's is a bit of a hedge. I actualy wanted to give him less PT, but we probably need him out there in place of KevLar for 4 minutes each half. McCoy's number is a shot in the dark. Could be more if Cimino can't help, could be basically nothing, as well (thogh minutes in early blowouts skews his number up)
- I have Swan as the odd man out just based on a numbers game. But if he shoots it well and Nick doesn't defend, you could easily reverse those guys.
10/1/2014 10:13:45 AM - Long Suffering Fan
Going to be hard for Kev Lar to stay on the Court for 32 minutes per game, as big men have a tendency to pick up ticky tack fouls. 2 quick ones in the first half have him sitting signficiant minutes already. Remember also that ML has this thing for resting starters. He did this last year with a significantly weaker bench than this year, so no reason to think that it won't happen again.
I give McCoy walk on minutes only. Perhaps a few serious minutes early on while the frosh develop.
Why no love for Nick? Realistically, for now, at least, I give him Mikic minutes.
Based solely on Kenner League observations (which of course are inherently unreliable), Jorgensen and Bryant looked the most game ready. Based upon comments by ML this past spring, Yuta is the most game ready.
10/1/2014 10:17:34 AM - Hatchet Man
I think you have to have at Larsen or Cimino on the court at all times. Hard to see how it works otherwise.
10/1/2014 10:42:28 AM - Long Suffering Fan
Therein lies our weakness, Hatchet Man, and the reason that I think some of us may be overrating this team for the upcoming season, namely it is questionable if Cimino, Yuta, or anyone else is ready to spell Larsen for any amount of time. They simply are not yet interior defenders.
10/1/2014 10:51:38 AM - newtman
FQ has it right in my book. the vast majority of minutes go to 8 guys. the rest get 7 minutes or less.
10/1/2014 11:02:11 AM - The MV
Some of you may be forgetting that the number of legitimate centers in today's college game has been dwindling for some time now. Could I see a rotation with a front line of Yuta, Pato and Kopriva on the floor? Absolutely. This puts Kevin and Matt C. on the bench at the same time. Agree with LSF about Kevin which is why I listed him for 25 minutes. That may end up being a bit low but the combination of short frequent breaks and foul trouble will likely curtail his minutes.
The forgotten man appears to be Anthony Swan. Some of you forgot about him entirely (unless you're belief is that he will not be playing at all this season) while only LSF and myself gave him double figfure minutes. Based on Kenner observations (which as LSF points out is merely an indicator but not necessarily gospel), Swan struck me as a rhythm player, the kind who may get 22 minutes one game (if he is on) and 5 minutes the next. He struck me as a very talented two-way player. Granted it was at Kenner, but my concern is his ability to stay focused and not get taken out of his game by getting sucked in by trash talking. Hopefully, this is a non-issue once the real games begin.
10/1/2014 11:38:57 AM - Omar Comin'
This is the dumbest request you can make of a message board, but of all the newcomers to the squad, I think we need to take it easy on Cimino. He's got the natural gift of height and a deft touch, but he's got a long way to go to be a serious competitor. I think he'll end up a more successful project than Paris, for example, but he's definitely a project. I think we need to collectively internalize that and adjust expectations accordingly.
10/1/2014 11:47:37 AM - Colonial NY
Joe Mac 28
Larsen's numbers are obviously heavily dependent on foul trouble but if ML can get 30 minutes a game from him, he will take it every time. Same with Garino, whose defense is sometimes so good he gets bad calls going against him. I think JoeMac and Savage get a bit more rest to make sure they are strong throughout the entire season with both coming off major injuries. If Jorgenson and Griffin prove to be solid, I could even see their numbers going up by a minute or two per game with JoeMac and Savage dropping down to 26 or 27 minutes a game. I see McCoy getting the two minutes or so that Paris got regularly in the first half last year.
10/1/2014 1:48:25 PM - Free Quebec
The problem for Swan, Bryant, and Griffin is the numbers game. Prince Harry of Harlem will get his minutes as the backup PG, and Yuta will get plenty of minutes up front (maybe even as a 3 occasionally). So if Bryant is going to play, there just aren't that many minutes available for the three to split - unless Savage and Joe are going to sit for longer than we think. If Swan shoots to his potential, he'll earn minutes, but it's goign to be tough to get all three of them long run (and I've been assuming Bryany plays the most becuase of his potential to rebound and defend).
10/1/2014 2:39:59 PM - bobo
Larsen averaged 31.2 minutes/game last year and has at least 30 minutes/game each of the last 16 games. Garino was in for at least 30 minutes in 12 of the lat 14 games last year. McDonald also played at least 30/game for the last 10 games last year. But I think that was more out of neccessity than choice by Lonergan. Larsen is the indespensible man for GW next year and Garino should be the overal MVP and thus those 2 get the most minutes.
10/1/2014 2:51:08 PM - bobo
If Swan and Griffin are basically battling for the same spot on the court (wing 3pt shooter), why play one 7 minutes and the other 4? I get that early in the season, Lonergan would want to get a look at both on the court in live games, but once the heart of the season starts, shouldn't a coach choose 1? Giving 1 guy a solid 10-12 minutes a game as the outside shooter is likely to give him more confidence and consistency than splitting that time at 7 and 4 minutes/game.
10/1/2014 4:09:22 PM - Free Quebec
I was trying to go by averages, Bobo. Some games Swan will get more minutes, some Nick will. (And it's all just a random guess anyway - and a pretty dumb one, probably). I suspect matchups and hot or cold shooting will dictate, so if the hot hand gets 10 per game and the cold hand gets 2, then rouglly I'm saying 2 out of every 3 will be Nick games and the other a Swan game. (but more likely, by late in the season, one of them is riding more pine and the other is in the regular rotation).
10/1/2014 4:21:21 PM - rocket
Griffin averaged 4.8 minutes per game last year. Nemanja averaged 16.5. Of course, that was with Kethan hurt for a little less than half the season.
10/1/2014 4:49:22 PM - The MV
I'm really unconvinced that thses two will be battling one another for minutes. Nick is the best shooter on this team but so far, his game has been one-dimensional. Hopefully, other facets of his game will improve but based on what I've seen to date, he's likely to be more of a liability on defense relative to other options, he's too slender to be a serious rebounder (like Joe), and his ball handling skills are OK but nothing compared to Paul's. Swan has about 5 inches on Nick and strikes me as multi-dimensional player. Well suited to play the 1-3-1 (his man defense is something that didn't jump out at me at Kenner but that's neither here nor there), he can rebound well, has a nice shooting stroke, etc. Not really sure if or where the holes are in his game.
10/1/2014 5:47:42 PM - Tim4
I was excited to be able to bring some controversy and say that I think Yuta will end up with starters minutes by the conference season but FQ took the air out of that. So I concur, FQ.
Not sure much else is there to argue about minus who gets most minutes out of PJorg, Griffin, Bryant, Swan. And that would be my order.
10/1/2014 7:13:53 PM - cagwu
I see PJorgs and D Bryant logging serious minutes given their handle and defense allowing Joe and Kethan to play more off-ball. I can see us playing smaller and faster until Yuta & Cimino learn the ropes. Kopriva starts but plays sparingly in largely 3 guard lineups. I don't see McCoy getting off the bench at all from what I saw in Kenner. He's like a much slower version of Mikic.
10/1/2014 7:17:03 PM - cagwu
Another question: who jumps for the ball to start the game? Kevlar? Kopriva?
10/2/2014 6:12:14 AM - pops
i agree with Omar on Cimino, although he has a way bigger upside than paris. Yuta will get lots of minutes as will jorgensen - close to starters minutes for both. I also feel that McCoy will see more time up front than most of us expect. he may well be larsen's backup when we need size and muscle inside. Bryant will find some minutes because he's such a solid two way player who plays tough d and acts like a junior.
i don't really expect this, but similar to those years of wishful thinking about mikic, i really hope griffith's game progresses to where he can stay on the floor because of his overall game not just his shooting. unlike mikic i think he can do more than be a pocket passer.
10/2/2014 8:22:55 AM - Rimhigh
We can haggle all day long over minutes but for me the question of minutes played when it counts is far more important. Minutes played in the middle of the first half versus the last part of the second half is a much more interesting question. Who can Lonergan count on when the game is being decided? Beyond the core four who won't make a bad mistake, who will make a clutch shot, who will hit a free throw, who will play defense....
10/2/2014 10:07:41 AM - The MV
Cagwu, if I were Lonergan, I'd propose doing away with the opening tip and allowing our opponents to either start with the ball or defer this decision until the start of the second half.