Let me preface this by saying I know I'll probably get ripped for this and called a Hobbs sympathizer or whatever.

The team has been frankly brutal so far this year and I'm not trying to defend either the coaching staff or the players for this. I understand the frustration because there's nothing worse than seeing terrible offense.

The truth is it's next year which is do or die for Hobbs, not this one. The fact is everybody in the athletic department and involved in this team has been planning for next year for a long time now. Senior point guard and finally the majority of the team are upperclassmen. Combine that with the best recruit in the conference and you can see why. Davis's emergence has been a bonus. So no, Hobbs won't be fired.

What I will say is the standards for next years team are going to be very high. There won't be a "oh we moved up to 7th in the conference so everybody can stay" attitude. I'm not going to say we need to make the NCAA's because who knows what the A10 will be like next year, but the NIT is a bare minimum I'd say. With this in mind, look for us to finally schedule some big names for next year. I know it sucks to wait but right now we're not Xavier or Dayton who can afford to lose big players and still be ok.

I know you haven't been around too long, DEA, but we used to be one of those teams in the A-10 who could lose a big player without losing to Navy and Hampton and Wilmington and GMU back to back to back to back.

Also feels like we're a lot further away from where you are suggesting we can be than a freshman big man and a returning wing scorer.  We need a new offense, a new defense, and some phyiscal and mental toughness before any players can succeed under this regime.

I tend to agree in the broad sense with DEA on this one (though I think NIT goal is too low and schedule dreams are too high).  Very reminiscent of the first year Trachtenburg and Chernak came to town and gave Kuester that "courtesy" year to rebound from the 1-27 season. Team showed vast improvement to near .500 but not nearly enough to justify a clearly unexpected vote of confidence to continue. Copes, Davis, and Kromah will be added to this year's team which may not do the trick, but has to make things better next year than what they are now.  Does blowing it up really take the program forward after the temporary shout of relief from the unhappy followers? (been down that road when Jarvis left looking for  bigger and better things). Can GW even realistically expect to reach the heights set by its low numbered, high expectation fan base?  While the frustration level is justifiably high among everyone...including those officially associated with GW on and off the court...this just might be a case of staying with the pimple-faced, overweight date who didn't look so bad  when initially invited to the dance before she got that job at Baskin-Robbins. Exercise programs and miracle creams hawked by Victoria Principal sometimes work. Usually they don't. But everyone acknowledges that Foggy Bottom has definitely become Mudville -- there's no joy there right now.

It's amazing to me that people want to give KH a pass this year because he has talent coming in next year. Next year will be different? His talented teams still floundered to beat teams like Marshall and UNCW and got pounded by an NC State team that didnt even make the tournament.

Other than the 2004 BBT and at Providence in 2000, KH has never beaten a BCS school on a "neutral" or away site.

Wake up. KH can't coach. He can't even coach talent. We can argue about whether keeping him behooves us from the standpoint of building a roster next year. Just don't expect that to translate into wins.

You have to admit, this year we have a challenging schedule, we just had to stink badly enough to make it so.

I hope the players are hitting the books hard, it'll be tough to get much value or pleasure from playing these games. As bad as it is to watch, it sure must be worse to be doing it.

1. Even if Copes is as good as billed, you have to blend new and returning players.  Our team with Chris Monroe (the top scorer in GW history), Pops, Mike, Omar and TJ won 12 games.  2.  There's no guarantee of how fast Kromah will regain form, or if his injury, which must be one pretty ripped=up ankle, will allow him to resume his preferred playing style.  3.  Having Tony Taylor as our senior PG next season doesn't put a vision of Shawnta or Carl Elliott into my head.  Frankly,

1. Even if Copes is as good as billed, you have to blend new and returning players.  Our team with Chris Monroe (the top scorer in GW history), Pops, Mike, Omar and TJ won 12 games.  2.  There's no guarantee of how fast Kromah will regain form, or if his injury, which must be one pretty ripped=up ankle, will allow him to resume his preferred playing style.  3.  Having Tony Taylor as our senior PG next season doesn't put a vision of Shawnta or Carl Elliott into my head.  Frankly, except

1. Even if Copes is as good as billed, you have to blend new and returning players.  Our team with Chris Monroe (the top scorer in GW history), Pops, Mike, Omar and TJ won 12 games.  2.  There's no guarantee of how fast Kromah will regain form, or if his injury, which must be one pretty ripped=up ankle, will allow him to resume his preferred playing style.  3.  Having Tony Taylor as our senior PG next season doesn't put a vision of Shawnta or Carl Elliott into my head.  Frankly, except for

Again!  ???

The last thing I was going to say is, except for visions of Eric Copes and sugarplums, I don't see what there is to "blow up."  

A new coach also bring new energy to a program, and doesn't allow other coaches to whisper into a recruits ear that the coach is about to be canned, so don't go there.  I think most new coaches pound the pavement for players much harder in the beginning than older coaches do.

mentz, we're giving KH coaching too much credit. alumnus, you're right. what is it we'd be blowing up?

i don't buy the talk abt nobody would want the job.  don't tell me there isn't some good, young coach or assistant out there who wouldn't jump at chance to coach in A-10. plus there is only one way to go.

I believe that among the posters here you are in the know DEA.  So I will take your word for it that Hobbs will survive this disaster of a season and get a chance to save his job next season.

I think they should tell Hobbs what those criteria are.  Some of that could be

1. A better than .500 record next year at a minimum. 

2. More activity on the recruiting trail.  We need more than Davis and Copes.  Who else is he talking to?

3. A new x's and o's type assistant who is going to bring in some new ideas on offense.

Even if Hobbs stays, I still think a calamity like this invites some kind of transformation of the team - players leaving, assistants leaving.  We are about to enter A-10 play.  If it has been ugly so far playing small, mid-major programs, just imagine what is coming.  I don't like to talk about players leaving, but to expect everyone to come back next year just doesn't seem realistic.

I do think a team with Davis, Copes, TT, a 100% healthy Kromah and Pellom, could be competitive, with another two or three players that could contribute.  Mikic needs to show that he is more than a 3-point shooter, or he will be relegated to that role on the team.  If I were the AD I would probably lean towards keeping Hobbs to get Copes and see what happens after that. It's a long shot, but starting over doesn't promise anything either.  Still, I would bet that it's better than 50/50 that we are on the road to having a new coach a couple of seasons from now.  I can already see the post "Will Copes Stay?" appearing on this board a year or so from now.

In an metropolitan area with GU (can't write out the hated word) and Maryland, and now Mason, we just can't afford to sink into multiple seasons of mediocrity (or worse).  GW must excel in all areas, not the least of which is its most visible and lucarative sport - mens basketball.

What I think is ridiculous is the notion of "next year will be better."  So what happens if it is better but only slightly.  I can hear the excuses now:  Copes needs to mature, Davis is young, Kromah is only one year removed from injury...it's the same thing over and over.   

I have to agree with adclub, different year, new excuses.  The only thing we will be slowly removing is the "Young team" excuse, which seems to get used no matter what.

DEA, if your right, then I assume GWU is ok with empty seats, losing revnue, and a bigger disgruntled fan base.  Blowing up nothing to start something is what you do when your house is falling apart at the foundation.  Destroy it and start over.  

As mentioned, with UMD, GU, and now GMU having successful seasons...can we seriously expect to just bounce back.  The longer we let this smolder, the worse it will be and the harder it will be to right the ship.  I wanted KH gone last year, but that is only an opinion.  Who knows where we would be if we had given him the boot sooner, and not later....

In this case, I hate being right..should have cut ties sooner....but now, "Let his ass go down with the ship he built!!!"  He is ruining his own career along with our basketball program. 

Former Player Current Fan has an excellent vantage point: it's time for Karl to go down with the ship.

We and hopefully the administration if it has any sense and wants to keep the few fans left, were saying two years ago, cut Karl some slack for the "excellent" class he recruited. Six players in one year. And you see the nightmarish results. Stellar job, Karl.

In recent years, it's always been give him another year, give him another year. We couldn't be a major factor in the Patriot League. Give us a break and save a disintegrating program.

Actually, DEA, I am not going to bash you.  I think you state the only intelligent and rationale argument for maintaining KH after what is now 4 consecutive disasterous seasons.   GW is in a very difficult situation.  I always thought KH was a below average game coach, even during the 27-3 year (which I once said was done with "smoke and mirrors" due to the schedule we played and then got blasted for this).  However, KH was entitled to a great deal of slack because he did put together what as a very successful team.  National coverage, full house, post season appearances...however it was accomplished, it was real.  It became further difficult to cut the ties when things quickly unraveled due to the size of his contract.  Well, there is not that much time left on the contract and the losing seasons are piling up, but Copes is a major consideration if he is anywhere close to being as good as advertised.  Realistically, we all know that the ONLY reason he is coming to GW is his uncle, and if we lose his uncle we can say goodbye to our best recruit in a long time, and that is no small factor.  So, the KH defenders do have a point, even if I am of the belief that the program cannot turn around with KH as head coach.  I also wish people would stop personal attacks on KH, who I am sure is very frustrated and very hurt at what has happened.  I will repeat what I have said many, many times that with his faults, I believe KH is a very hard worker.  (on the other hand, I think JK has been phoning it in for years and that the athletic departments ineptitude in capitalizing on the golden years boarders on imcompetence).   So, we do have a problem on our hand, but I do recognize that both sides on the KH issue have very valid points.  Ultimately, the entire house needs to be cleaned, for which we all agree.  The question is when.

As a self-described "insider," DEA apparently derives his livelihood from the current regime, so he can be excused if he lacks institutional memory or a taste for change.

LSF is absolutely correct when he says KH's success is smoke and mirrors.

If he had come in and built a program slowly, with legitimate qualifiers who play a system built on defense and rebounding, and played real competition, no one would be hunting right now.

His charge wasn't to go 27-3 when he arrived, it was "make us proud" after the indiscretions of TP. With Omargate, he failed ... utterly. No one said, "Win now." That was KH, so he could get to a better place for himself. And now were paying the price, still.

Lose him today. Lose Kvancz in the off-season. Promoting Houston would be the best move given the Copes recruitment.

As a self-described "insider," DEA apparently derives his livelihood from the current regime, so he can be excused if he lacks institutional memory or a taste for change.

LSF is absolutely correct when he says KH's success is smoke and mirrors.

If he had come in and built a program slowly, with legitimate qualifiers who play a system built on defense and rebounding, and played real competition, no one would be hunting right now.

His charge wasn't to go 27-3 when he arrived, it was "make us proud" after the indiscretions of TP. With Omargate, he failed ... utterly. No one said, "Win now." That was KH, so he could get to a better place for himself. And now were paying the price, still.

Lose him today. Lose Kvancz in the off-season. Promoting Houston would be the best move given the Copes recruitment.

"Back in the office. Working through film. Trying to put together a strong gameplan for Towson on Wednesday." 

http://twitter.com/gwcoachhobbs

Considering that there was a time when this Towson game (coming just before finals) would be a cakewalk even the walk-ons would get big mins in, that is quite a telling statement.

Twitter.

I told you that they should just knock that thing from his hands....

... unless he could tweet something funny like "I can see Alaska State at Juno from my house"

Game plan? At least the jargon is there. I think there needs to be more teaching and coaching done THIS year. Next year will have it's own set of issues, not the least of which is that many of these same players will have to know how to play the game better then too.

I wonder if that gameplan has anything to do with trapping the ball on defense and running the "wheel" on offense?

Just a hunch.

I serisouly doubt that DEA is an "insider", he said in a previous post that he doesn't remember who Tamal Forchion was?  As i get older, the years all seem to blend together, but I dont think that was too long ago.

 I have changed my tune basically and I agree with most of you on this board. We should not lose to Hampton or Wilmington or Navy, that's completely unacceptable. What I'm telling you is the people who make these decisions don't listen to the people on this board and there will be one more season, like it or not. 

DEA, you may be right that the admin doesn't read this board, but they would have to be completely blind and deaf if they didn't know that the small fan base that this team does have is really up in arms about the state of the basketball program.  Hobbs has been given year and year to say he has a young team and is in rebuilding mode.  We get to this year where those of us who follow the team could at least believe that a better season was on the way.  We lose our best player, and now we are one of the worst teams in Div. 1 basketball and we are losing to no-name teams.  Hobbs has been truly lousy coaching on the floor this year.  The offense is the worst in memory. 

So while JK and Chernak may shrug and say Hobbs gets another season, I can only hope somewhere out in the distance they hear the school's alumni and supporters screaming that they have had enough.  Basketball isn't the most important thing in the world, or at GW.  But for the amount of money the school spends on the program, they are getting ripped off.

i have believed that that glass-enclosed room off the court, the one that looks like the bar of an exclusive hotel, was there to charm the big donors who have been lured to Smith Center with the promise of a remotely decent basketabll team.  I would imagine that these big donors, reluctant to come to see the current aggregation of talent, would be more reluctant to donate.  That would get the attention of Knapp and Chernak and make them figure our how to improve the basketball product, either with Hobbs or without him.

Here's what I would hope that some of you holding the pitchforks would understand and possibly even admit to:

1) We are not in the middle of our 4th consecutive horrible year.  That's because last year wasn't a horrible year.  Last year showed lots of promise which has unfortunately become derailed so far this season due primarily to Lasan's injury.

2) There is a light at the end of the tunnel with respect to next year's recruiting class.  Please give the "we say this every year" a rest.  Next year's freshmen are anticipated to be very special and you either know this or don't care to factor this into a decision as to whether KH should be fired prior to their arrival.  Put another way, I'd understand the chorus for KH's job a whole lot more if we didn't have any strong prospects coming our way.

3) It never has, and never should really matter if and when KH refers to his team as young.  So what.  Why do you care?  Even if he's wrong, why are you bothered by this?   It's coachspeak and nothing more.

4) KH is doing plenty to change our offense.  Despite what Bobo wants you to believe, I have seen far less of the wheel this year, and far more pick setting on the perimeter than ever before.  It is apparent that we are trying to free up shooters for more outside shots but unfortunately, our percentage has been poor.  What has been lacking has been more movement by players without the ball and more dribble drive penetration.  Feel encouraged that we got to the foul line 28 times against Navy; that's actually a good sign (of course, we need to make more than 18 of these to be successful).  Prior to the Navy game, we have been guilty of being two-dimensional..either into Katuka in the low post or jack up a three.  Our offense needs to be more than just these two things.

I completely get that things just suck right now.  Let's stay behind this team, including it's coaches, and hope for improvement. 

MV, get real. tell it to someone who might believe the BS. there's always a light at the end of the tunnel. you are defending his coaching?  have to give you and DEA credit for continuing to take up KH's case.  most other True Believers must be on vacation havent heard much from them lately. maybe they're reconsidering things?

it's not about being a GW fan. it's examining a situation, analyzing it and coming to a conclusion. when can we start assessing the team,s performance? after 7, 8, 9...........how many games?

DEA, if this administration is going to give Hobbs one more year anyway, then the least we can do is make it as uncomfortable for them as possible by making them absorb all of our junk punches.

GW has fallen to #13 in the latest WH A-10 Ranking System:  Ranking the A-10 (VERSION 2.0)

1)RICHMOND. The Spiders are the most complete team in the A-10, and with wins already over Purdue and Arizona State, are looking great in terms an at-large bid. Justin Harper has really ramped up his game and is playing at a First Team level. Where, though, is Francis Martel’s offense?

2)TEMPLE. The Owls are still shooting poorly from outside (23%) but they starting to show gradual improvement on offense. Fernandez is coming around and sophomore Khalif Wyatt has been great off the bench. Ramon Moore is struggling a bit, however, and Allen is just not a guy who will dominate inside with scoring. Good thing the defense is great. The Owls will win a lot of low-scoring affairs.

3)XAVIER. Tu Holloway, as great as he’s played, is not a good enough outside shooter to carry this team offensively. Defenses will get better at taking away his penetration and controlling the damage he does. Thus the improvement of combo guard Mark Lyons is most welcome. Still, I am skeptical this team has enough firepower to remain in contention for an at-large bid. Dante Jackson, Jamel McLean and Kenny Frease cannot be relied upon to score every game. Oh, how Brad Redford’s shooting would come in handy now!

4)MASSACHUSETTS. The Minutemen move up by default. They have only one loss and have been very competitive in each game. The offense is putting up more than 70 points, the defense is much improved and the team never gives up. Anthony Gurley (21. 4ppg) has been fantastic, one of the best players in the A-10.

Problem is, the team can’t seem to string two great halves together in one game. The inside game is suspect and the outside shooting comes and goes. When Freddie Riley is on, UMass can beat almost anybody. Otherwise he might shoot UMass out of a chance to win. Better shot selection is in order.

5)LA SALLE. The Explorers blew a big one at home Saturday vs. Oklahoma State in a game they led almost the entire regulation. I have been a fan of coach G for a long time because he knows how to build a down-and-out program. Yet I am unimpressed by his game management. He is not a coach who makes great in-game adjustments.

One example: LaSalle played a zone for much of the game against Delaware State and got crushed from outside. G finally went to man late in the second half – long after he should have switched. The Explorers were barely able to eke out a win, but it never should have come to that. Frankly, I didn’t think he would ever switch out of the zone. Then in the OSU game, Devon White was big on the boards in the first half, but he barely played in the second half when LaSalle needed a beefier player to guard Moses when he was killing the Explorers inside.

Still, the Explorers have good inside-out balance, and like UMass, they move up by default.

6)DAYTON. The Flyers are shooting a horribly, just 39% overall (13th, A-10), and the defense has had plenty of uncharacteristic lapses. Still, lots of talent, size and athleticism here and I expect Dayton to get its act together in time. Chris Wright is playing better, but the Flyers need more from Chris Johnson and especially Josh Parker, who’s shooting a surprisingly poor 29% on treys. He had a rep for shooting and was a very good shooter in preseason. Also, Devin Searcy has to show up every night inside – and his teammates need to do a better job getting him the ball.

Dayton still has at-large possibilities with upcoming games vs. Old Dominion, Seton Hall, George Mason and New Mexico. The Flyers need to win at least two of those games – if not three – and avoid another loss to a team like East Tennessee State.

7)RHODE ISLAND. Rhody got trashed by an improving Providence team, showing typical matador defense. Delroy James (21 ppg, 6.6 rpg) is playing like an A-10 player of the year and Marquis Jones has been solid, but center Will Martell and sophomore marksmen Akeem Richmond (just 31% on treys) have been disappointments. Lack of depth, as expected, is hurting URI, too.

With tough games coming up Northeastern and Quinnipiac, Rhody is in a tenuous position. The team really cannot afford to lose either game to keep alive faint hopes of at-large possibilities.

8)DUQUESNE. The Dukes can score and Damian Saunders is starting to play like an A-10 First Teamer, but this team needs to rebound better and play better defense to position itself for a postseason (NIT, CBI) bid. Duquesne has the smallest frontcourt in the league and the Dukes were exposed by Pitt. Fortunately the only team likely to beat them up inside in the A-10 is Temple and, maybe, St. Bonaventure.

9)ST. LOUIS. Awful game for the Bills at Portland. I don’t think I have ever seen a team dominate another so much inside. I think Portland scored more than half its points in the paint, and most were of the old-fashioned postup variety. Not cheap backdoor layups or anything like that. The young SLU players are talented, as I already mentioned, and Majerus will keep this team very competitive throughout the year. Yet the Bills will have trouble scoring and defending from time to time and their inexperience will show through.

Most surprising is the play, or lack thereof, of Cody Ellis. The Australian sophomore didn’t play vs. Portland because of defensive shortcomings. More than any other player, he has been severely affected by the loss of Reed and Mitchell. Reed’s shotblocking covered for Ellis’ subpar defense and Kwamain got him plenty of open looks to shoot.

10)ST. BONAVENTURE. Might we be seeing signs of life? Point guard Ogo Adegboye came up huge with seven treys in a 66-64 win over Buffalo. It was his first stellar effort of the season, but the Bonnies need many more performances like that to achieve a .500 record. The team will play as well as its guards do.

Almost as important, some of the frontcourt players need to provide consistent scoring and rebounding to take the load off all-league center Andrew Nicholson. Demitrius Conger and DaQuan Cook have each had big games, but they come too far and few between.

11)CHARLOTTE. THe Niners have played better lately despite the suspension to Shamari Spears, but Charlotte simply lacks enough talent and depth to finish in the top half of the A-10. They won’t finish in the basement, however, because the Niners have more inside-out balance and experience compared to the teams I list below Charlotte.

12)ST. JOSEPH'S. The Hawks are up and down as might be expected of a young team. The latest freshman to shine is combo forward Ron Roberts, but Langston Galloway has fallen off a bit.

Emerging as a future league star is fiery but diminutive point guard Carl Jones (17.5 ppg). Love the kid’s fire and competitiveness. I am also amazed at his ability to get into the lane and finish over much bigger players. That said, the failure of Martelli’s recruiting in the junior and sophomore classes is all too obvious.

13)GEORGE WASHINGTON. The Colonials are offensively inept (61 ppg, 14th in A-10) and mediocre defensively. GW simply can’t score and it has to play in-your-nose defense all game long to have a chance to win. This is a team anyone in the A-10 can beat the way the Colonials are playing right now. GW has more size and athleticism than Fordham, but Fordham has more scorers and the Rams are more confident about their future. The Colonials need to avoid self-pity or their season will become a disaster.

14)FORDHAM. The Rams are improving despite mediocre talent and a limited roster. Fordham might get help in the second semester from a PG recruit, Lamount Samuel, who is supposed to become eligible. Pecora has stuck with just six players and needs to find another one or two guys to contribute. The Rams will be more dangerous at home this season, but they will be underdogs in every game they play on the road.

http://www.basketballforum.com/atlantic-10-conference/450198-ranking-10-version-2-0-a.html

Newtman, first, if there's always a light at the end of the tunnel, then it normally doesn't shine so brightly.  Copes is a top 50 high school senior; the #6 ranked center coming out of high school.  Every report on him has indicated how much he's improved, how he's doing great against top-notch competition, how his motor doesn't stop, etc.  If GW ALWAYS lands a player with these type of credentials, let me know which players these have been lately. 

Second, nobody is defending KH's coaching right now or is even asking to not analyze the team right now.  We are playing remarkably poorly.  However, where I take exception is when people believe that our offense is the same as what it has been in the past when in reality, we are trying new things.  Want to complain that the offense has looked pathetic?  I'm right there with you.  Want to suggest that all we do is play the wheel?  Well, that's just factually incorrect.

Finally, while I have always had some criticisms of KH's coaching in the past, I'm not so forgetful as to not being able to recall his leading his team to four consecutive postseason tournaments.  Nor am I willing to concede that this all happened in spite of him.

I do not see how KH recruits for 2012-2013 season, Why would any kid go to a school where the odds are more than 50% that his coach is fired before the kid shows up at the dorm.  Copes may be a real good player, but I doubt the class after him will have much talent if KH is the one doing the recruiting.  Copes is just one player, he will need help, how he will ever get that help is extremely unclear.

MV, good response. i did say there is always light at the end of the tunnel. it is largely in anticipation of Copes coming next year.  i did not say we have always have such highly touted recruits. but lets take a look at this season. everyone, myself included, was high on the super sophs. OK, kromah was injured but what about the other four super sophs? i hope Erik Copes plays for GW but i dont think he alone is going to turn this program around his first year. yes even a healthy kromah and Davis who may or may not contribute next year.

never mentioned 'the wheel' as it is not in my lexicon. IMO KH's offense game plan is a disaster so unimaginative. there is more movement than the last few years but no one evr passes the ball to a cutter and we wind up launching a 3. Fitz has taken 35 shots in 63 mintes of action. if BB doesnt work out he could always play The Rifleman in the movie remake.

i agree it's not all Hobbs fault he's the face of the team. i assume he took in the applause when he had the NCAA run.

...one or a group of you big-time boosters ponying up the cash to buyout the coach and  bring in __________(insert big-time unemployed college coach)....i mean that's how the big time school's do it, right?

herve, I trace the collapse of the GW Hoops empire to the banishment of Blue Seats.  I say you let him come back and see if the luck comes back to the program. 

Newtman, sorry for the confusion.  I know it was Bobo and not you who spoke of the wheel.  My response started out being directed towards you but as is often the case, I go on to address points which others have made.

Logic, you have a better chance of hitting the Powerball. That is the number one problem with GW. We want a champagne program on a beer budget. You couldn't scare up but a handful of donors who would contribute any more than $1,000 to a buyout. This site is free and so are the opinions. Unfortunately running a competitive A-10 program is not. When those here decide to pony up then they will have some standing. Until then, it's all internet bullshit.

Seneca, what is your position at GW that you're deciding who has "standing?"  Are you the athletic director?  If you're just another toadie that snaps towels with assistant coaches, and based on posts from you and others over the past decade the athletic dept. staff seems to encourage that kind of idol worship, you have no more "standing" than anybody else.  You're just another useless opinion.  Plenty of us are among the fading few that pay for tickets.  It can get even emptier in there.  I doubt Eric Copes is going to be crazy about playing for sub-1000 crowds. 

So Alumnus it's simple then - fork over the amount of money needed to buy Hobbs out and you'll have all the standing you want. Otherwise, you are just a screen name. Because you post here anonymously and claim to buy tickets you have standing? Maybe here but not in the REAL world. 

Blue Seats, in the REAL WORLD, businesses recognize that if you're paying someone to deliver something, in this case bodies in the seats, and they don't, they have a problem.  But there's no problem because we'll be so much better with Hollis playing his fifth season.  They're so lucky to have a genius like you advising them. 

Keep posting Alumnus - you obviously like the sound of your voice so much so that you constantly confuse posters. I'm not advising anyone nor do I care to or think GW would want me to. Never had a discussion with anyone at GW about Hobbs' future. Don't know why you would think otherwise. But again, in the REAL world, I'm sure that if you were willing to step up to the plate I'd bet they'd listen. A ticket and a bag of chips simply isn't going to get it done.

I would think all the missing tickets and lack of support and success would get it done.

All that and a bag of chips.

Lev-- until you start delivering on the promised recaps, no one will pay the least bit of attention to what you say!

OK, so the bag of chips involved needs to be "big grab" size to match Hobbs' substitution methods.

Some big time schools may want Copes, but I'm not sure they will take his Uncle Houston with him.  Let's not go crazy over Erik Copes.  He's ranked #50 in the country.  That's very good for a school like GW but the big time schools get players of that level just about every year (if not better). If they were in the habbit of hiring that player's father, brother, uncle, cousin then they would have very large staffs indeed. 

Yeah, if Copes opts out, it'll be to go to a better team, not to get his uncle a new job.

Copes has signed his LOI, which means the school has to grant him a release (most schools do this if there's a coaching change so as not to look like total jerks, but it's not mandatory).

Bobo is right about Copes. He is not a "program-building" player. He's a very good center who relies on hustle and physical dominance in high school. He will get a LOT of fouls in his freshman year and will find it more difficult to move Division I players around in the lane. He is a great defender and rebounder and will be as a freshman as well (sans the pending foul trouble). HOWEVER, he is not a scorer at all and has a very raw offensive game, much like Pops when he was a freshman--albeit a different style of player for sure. GW's biggest problem this year is NOT rebounding or even defense for the most part, it's plain-and-simple SCORING. If you expect Copes to step-in and be even a 15ppg guy next year you'll be very disappointed. He'll probably get about 8ppg on putbacks.

Seneca, Pony Boy, (Empty) Blue Seats, whatever you want to call yourself, I forgot to thank you for telling me that buying a couple of tickets isn't going to get GW to make the decisions that I want.  It's that kind of insightful information that we rely on you for.  As for the Real World, I'd suggest that if the team misses the A-10 tournament for the third out of four seasons and attendance averages below 1500, if GW doesn't at least consider parting with Hobbs, they just don't exist in the Real World.  Maybe they don't.  It's up to them how they want to lose the money that they're always crying for.  There are a few people in the world that can consider donating money to an organization that likes to throw it away.  Unfortunately I'm not one of them.

Since you're such a hotshot, why don't you pony up and put up your own website, GWISFOREXCUSEMAKERS.COM?  Then you can zap anyone who doesn't agree with your party line.  Over here we get freedom of speech, which I know makes you stew in your juices.

seneca, in response to Alumnus' post you said 'When those here decide to pony up then they will have some standing. Until then, it's all internet bullshit.' so are you a big-time booster, Ath Dept employee or you have no standing like the rest of us?  IMO if you're a big-time booster you're not getting your money's worth but continue to contribute if you're happy with the product. if you're an AD employee you're either part of the problem most of us see or just a working stiff with no say.  OR if you're neither than you're part of the internet BS as you call it. which is it?

 A few things on the recruits:

The agreement they signed is binding, as long as Hobbs is the coach next year they legally cannot get out of it at this point.

These guys are both coming here to play right away. Houston being Erik's uncle was helpful but he committed to GWU because Hobbs was on him EARLY and he will walk right in and start at center as opposed to going to Villanova or UConn and having to come off the bench his freshman year. Davis is a fairly safe bet to stay no matter what happens because from what i've been told he was more hooked on DC and the campus than the program.

Having seen both of the recruits play,  this is what to expect:

1. Previous posters are correct about Copes being raw offensively. He would easily have the best post moves on this year's team but of course that's not saying much. He will however, be one of the best defensive players in the A10 the minute he steps on campus. His timing on d is incredible. My guess is he will have a little trouble rebounding at first as he has to get used to the physicality of D1 bball but should catch on soon. And people saying he wouldn't have high major schools after him if there's a coaching change are wrong. I've been told that if he hadn't committed to GW so early (plus the fact that it's GW) he would be higher than #50 overall and #6 at center. That's how impressive he was this summer.

2. It's tough to tell how Davis will translate to D1 play initially but his greatest strength is his versatility. He's big, probably 6'6 or 6'7 and he can really handle the ball. He definitely needs to put on a lot of weight but if he does this guy can play four positions. The mix of him, Dwayne and Nemanja at the 3 spot will give us a ton of options next year there. 

Newtman - I am none of the above but I'm not here trying to spend other people's money or tell them what they should do when I'm not privy to all the information that would make for a good decision one way or the other.

Alumnus - I am not discussing the merits of whether KH stays or goes, I'm just saying that if you really are so committed to having the man go, then make it happen. GW is all about the $$$$. One of the problems at GW is that there are not enough committed folks and by committed I mean serious athletic donors. And by committed I also don't mean just buying tickets. If a whole bunch of people with some cash stepped in and said this is what needs to happen you'd see things change in a NY minute. That's what I meant by the REAL world. Absent that, why should the administration who just spent a lot of money fixing up the Smith Center spend more for an uncommitted fanbase? You can turn this around by saying if they don't care we won't show up but what difference does it make. There is evidence that even in the years we had good teams we didn't draw that well (better than now but not well). At the end of the day (and I don't know this) GW might just be making the calculation that it will ride out the string with KH and then see what happens.

To me we are really a Patriot League school athletics-wise trying to play "up" with schools that for a whole host of reasons have advantages over us (excluding St. Bonaventure, Duquesne LaSalle, Fordham and St. Joe's). And what have those teams I mentioned ever won lately? We want to be Temple and Xavier but we have no reasonable road forward to get there - a coaching change notwithstanding. We'd be better off playing schools like us - AU, Holy Cross, Bucknell, Colgate, etc. Times have changed, the commitment has changed (admissions, funding, etc.). History is no longer applicable - even recent history. Sorry but those are the cold hard facts. I don't like 'em either but at least I acknowledge them.

.

seneca, thanks for the response. you said 'We want to be Temple and Xavier but we have no reasonable road forward to get there - a coaching change notwithstanding. We'd be better off playing schools like us - AU, Holy Cross, Bucknell, Colgate, etc. Times have changed, the commitment has changed (admissions, funding, etc.). History is no longer applicable - even recent history. Sorry but those are the cold hard facts. I don't like 'em either but at least I acknowledge them.' cold hard facts says who you're just another BSer like the rest of us.

so you disagree with the overall direction of the program. what is GW doing in A-10? you say we should be in the Patriot League playing AU, Bucknell...... so i can understand why you believe we can't do better than Hobbs. i think that most of us feel we can compete in A-10 if they make some changes, beginning with KH.

I was hoping we would get to the "Whom should we kick out of the A-10" point of the argument, because it's so often heard here when we're good, directed at Fordham, St. Bon, etc.

Problem is, Fordham and St. Bon will beat this Colonials team by 15 points each, just on scheduling.

So let's get those pitchforks out for not just the coach, but for our conference --- of which we are a charter member -- as well.

Because it's much more important to maintain continuity --- even when it's a colossal failure -- than making changes that could stop the bleeding.

I think you accurately hit all the points very well, seneca. Just be prepared to duck as all the slings and arows head your way.

Seneca-

You keep saying that we are a Patriot league type team.  But then you mention 5...yes 5 out of 14 teams (and if you include GW, that is 6) that are not really A-10 league teams. 

Somewhere along the way, I missed the allure of playing in Richmond.  Somewhere along the way, Ohio became an appealing place to play- though it took a committment from Xavier to do that.

GW has been to the tournament 8 times in the past 20 years.  That is not great- but it shows that the team can certainly hang with the rest of the conference.   Maybe, if the University tried to compete- instead of spending the time lamenting about their inability to compete, they'd do much better.

Hobbs has stopped complaining publicly, which is good- but all the times he said things like "how can I compete with good schools with good facilities" or "how can i win without good recruits" make it difficult for me to believe GW is doing anything but feeling sorry for itself.

I forgot what it is that temple has to offer, which GW cannot? 

Maybe Seneca should put his money where his mouth is and walk into JK's office with a big check written to GWU Athletic Dept...contingent on them moving to the Patriot League.

Otherwise its all just internet message board bullshit.

Newtman - you are correct and I never claimed any "status." But again I'm not sitting here anonymously asking someone (GW) to do something (fire) a real person. I'm not here to take another man's livelihood, especially one who had led us to our only 2 A-10 championships ever. That's for others to decide not me.

Does that mean that I'm happy and we should just proceed ahead - no. But I don't feel it's my place to lead or participate in the pitchfork crowd when I'm not really sure there would be a better outcome. Some of you probably say well how can it be worse than it is now. Well it can get a whole lot worse and no one ever considers that.

To me the whole Hobbs thing is a surrogate argument for the argument no one really wants to have - where does GW belong? A lot of the landscape has changed and continues to change. We can say we want to be Temple or Xavier and we can hope to be Temple or Xavier but I'm not so sure those days are ever going to return for a lot of reasons. It's unfortunate but that #6 ranking may be the highwater mark for GW basketball unless certain structural things that extend far beyond coaching change significantly - I'm talking admission standards, I'm talking support from the current administration for athletics, I'm talking athletics budgets and I'm talking about external perceptions among potential donors, fans and the like. GW is number one in our hearts but the problem is there are probably about 100-200 of us who will stick it out through thick and thin. There are cracks in the foundation that no one is looking at - we are only looking at the roof. The fact that we fixed up the Smith Center only has papered over some real systemic issues that have a lot to do with the quality of the product we put on the floor.

American University is an instructive case. It was not that long ago they made a decision to lessen the emphasis a little. GW scoffed at their move. And for a while it seemed like GW made the right move. I'm not so sure anymore. We can keep banging our heads against the wall or we can think of a different construct. But without a dramtic shift in priorities, you will not get a coach here who can build a program that will sustain itself. We may get a better coach but once he gets the environment and has a little success he will be gone. If he is not better, we will be right back where we are now. Now you are free to refuse to believe any of this but I'm confident over time you will see things differently whether KH is the coach or not.

 You are both over-analyzing it..we're not going to be good every year but that doesn't mean we have to move conferences. We will be good again next year and most(definitely not all) of this bitching will stop. The only A-10 schools which are good every year are Xavier, Dayton and Temple because they have the most backing from their schools by far. Look for Richmond to drop next year with Anderson gone. It all works in cycles. 

Seneca, if you're cold hard facts are in fact cold hard facts, then you have a bunch of liars running this program.  How can Dr. Chernak really say things like "at the end of the day, a coach is being paid to win basketball games", or Jack Kvancz discuss how nobody detests losing more than him, if we are a Patriot League type team athletics wise?  The implication behind your statement is that developing young men and making sure they graduate are infinitely more important goals than winning and losing games whereas at a higher level such as the A10, these might be considered to be of equal importance.

My take on all of this is that Chernak, Kvancz and Hobbs are all on the same page with respect to the importance of developing a winning program.  Our facilities have been upgraded and our basketball expenditures are competitive within the conference.  Our lone hindrance appears to be that 5,000 seat gym where quality opponents refuse to play and tv cameras increasingly refuse to appear at.  The reality is that we DO have to compete with the Temples and Xaviers of the A10.  To suggest that we're more like a Patriot League school either labels you as an excuse maker or a defeatist. 

I can assure you that Hobbs did not sign up to coach a Patriot League school (or one with that mentality), and I'm willing to bet that Chernak and Kvancz didn't sign up to oversee one either.

Not sure I see your logic, MV.  AU's athletic director wants teams that win. AU's basketball coach is expected to win. To what extent and at what price is for the university to determine. That is no different than at GW. But whether GW can continue to do so in the future playing at the A-10 level rather than at the Patriot League is what I believe seneca is raising. Nobody at GW is lying when they talk about a coach being paid to win or that they detest losing. Raising the POSSIBILITY that GW's sights may have to be reset is neither being an excuse maker or a defeatist. It's just raising a point for consideration.

There's only one thing this program needs -- to clean house of anyone who thinks we can't ever compete consistently in the A-10.   Hobbs clearly doesn't believe he should be expected to consistently make the A-10 tourney, let along be in the upper half ot he league.  I'm sure Blue Seats' thinking echoes Kvancz's own, that we are a a lowly Patriot League-level school trying to compete with the A-10 big boys, so I hope the whole lot of them are shown the door.

Until the last 4 years, we had a very strong, sustained run here (emphasis on sustained). Spanning 3 coaches, we made 8 tourneys in 15 or 16 years.  I don't see any reason that pace can't continue with the right team in place.  But with a petulant coach who doesn't truly believe he can win here, an AD who does nothing more than cash a paycheck and gladhand with useless insiders, a development director who doesn't actually do anything to cultivate donor (yes, that's you Dom), then that sustained success will never go back.

Those who say we should give up are wrong.  We can compete at the A-10 level -- but not unless we rid ourselves who buy into the Patriot League defeatism.

Thanks Poog for stating the point more eloquently than I can.

MV, everyone may have the best of intentions here and it just may not work out. Would I prefer to have an A-10 team that competes and challenges for A-10 titles and NCAA tournament berths regularly. You betcha. But that doesn't mean I'm going to ignore some significant storm clouds gathering on the horizon and what that might mean long-term for GW. I'm sure nobody on this board, KH, JK or BC signed up for this but the landscape is changing and they now operate in a different environment than when they arrived. Just take the admissions standards after Philly Lutheran as but one example. I think they all want to win. I'm just questioning whether or not that's possible anymore at this level. I don't have all the answers but somebody needs to start asking the questions.

Can we just put this little school that could routine to rest?  We are the largest private university in the A-10, I believe, and we have the second largest endowment behind Richmond in the whole conference.  If ultimately we decide to step down in conference prestige, it will be because the administration has given up, not because it can't financially hack it.  Personally, I think that would be a huge mistake.  Now, with conference realighments possible in the future, that decision may be made for us.  And if that's the case, well that might be what this school wants anyway.

FQ - you can stick your head in the sand and pretend it isn't so. That's fine. But talk about strawmen, I never heard Kvancz utter such a thing and I'd bet you haven't either. Maybe Blue Seats has but you would have to ask him.

BTW, what exactly more should Dom Perno be doing to cultivate donors? Giving them meals that cost more than the donations GW receives like the last 10 years? Some people are just clueless.

It seems like people's expectations stem from how they came to know the program.  For me, it was the early Jarvis years.  The A10 was better in a lot of ways at that point.  It had schools like WVU, Rutgers, and Penn State.  They were not all national basketball powerhouses, but the feeling of the conference was a lot different than having Fordham, La Salle etc.  Jarvis also took chances playing schools like UNC, Duke, Kentucky etc.  GW got crushed in these games (GW actually beat Syracuse on ESPN).  But the expectations and the view of the program by the admin were a world or two higher than where they are now.  You could sense they were using basketball to showcase the school.

FQ is saying that folks in the athletic department who don't think big should be shown the door.  I have seen posts here in the past where some argue that GW should just lower its ambitions and head to a smaller conference if this is the way things are going to go.  I actually agree with both of those options.  But the decision has to be made by GW's President and VP's.  What do they want for the program?  Xavier or Temple would never endure what GW is going through now.  So GW's admin either doesn't care, or they just don't have the same expectations for the program.  So which is it?

So I say just make a choice.  If Knapp believes in GW basketball then do something.  Don't just throw millions of dollars at a program and not expect any results.  That is horrible management.  If Knapp wants GW to be like NYU, ( not a sports driven university), then cut the athletic budget and go to a lower conference.  Of course my vote is to continue to fund the program and raise expectations.  Fixing up the Smith Center was a sign that the school is committed to the program.  They could have pushed that donor to put his money somewhere else.  But it still seems like there is a disconnect between the admin and the program.  I thought Chernak was the VP who championed the team.  I wonder what he is thinking now.

Poog, I think I need to be given a pass on this one for being "confused".  You back Seneca's post by saying that he was referring to this scenario as a "possibility" while Seneca repeatedly asked us to accept "cold, hard facts."  No, I don't think that Chernak or Kvancz were lying at all when they said what they said, and I do believe that they would like for GW to compete at the highest level possible.  Yes, even teams in the Patriot League WANT to win but my point was that there is not as much pressure to do so there than in the A10.  It might be nice as an AU fan to watch your team make the NCAA's every so often whereas they couldn't ever achieve this while in the Colonial, but from a basketball perspective, it would be hard to argue that AU is now in a better place.  And as has been pointed out, this should not be a case where GW is no longer a viable A10 school due to finances.  The money is there and we all know it...it's simply a matter of how the university wishes to prioritize.   

Seneca, in your opinion, what needs to change in order for GW to avoid the storm?  More money pumped into the program (say from the endowment)?  A larger arena (which obviously can't happen meaning we're doomed if that's the case)?  A new streak of NCAA appearances?  More fan support by way of attendance and/or donations?

I have to say that the timing of your assertion is odd.  We've just completed a $40 million renovation, Hobbs is recruiting in California, two desirable recruits have signed LOI's.  Despite the unfortunate play so far this season, things don't look so grim for this program, at least on the surface.

seneca, i agree with you that questions need to be asked and answered.  many of us think that with the amount of money GW spends on BB program we should be able to get better results in the A-10.  the admin has to decide A-10 or Patriot. if it's Patriot cut the budget because current level is excessive. if A-10 most of us believe we can't compete consistently with Hobbs at the helm. 

i thought Hobbs contract expired after this season.  if that's the case, i urge we don't extend KH not fire him. either way gone at year-end.

Yes, I have heard JK suggest that GW can't really compete, and that anything other than a losing A-10 season should be considered a pleasant surprise. Maybe he doesn't really feel that way and he's just trying to play the expectations game, but just like you don't seem to believe in the potential of the program, I don't think he does either.  And it probably doesn't help him for defeatists and apologists to have his ear, either.

As for Dom, he could try asking.  He's never once asked me for more money than I already contribute.  He knows I have 3 freinds who share the tickets with me, none of whom have ever joined the AD's club.  If he had ever asked them, I think at least one, maybe two, would have contribute.  I have heard similar stories from other people who don't want to contribute more than they already do, but probably wouild if asked directly, or if at all cultivated by Dom or someone.

The first rule of fundraising is you have to ask, and Dom doesn't do it.

http://gwhoops.com/default.aspx?mid=22615

From the Examiner:

George Washington director of athletics Jack Kvancz used one word Wednesday to describe his feelings about the Colonials men’s basketball season thus far. 

“Frustrating,” said Kvancz, declining any further evaluation of the program or head coach Karl Hobbs, for now. “I feel what I feel, but I’m not going to say anything until the end of the season.”
 

I should clarify that Jack did not actually say that, quote, anything other than a losing season should be considered a pleasant surprise.   He's just implied it by playing down expectations and suggesting any success is overachieving.

To answer your question, it is probably all of the above. If we want to be a competitive A-10 program we need to act like one from top to bottom. And when I say top I mean the Board of Trustees on down. It's great they put a new face on the Smith Center but if they think that alone will do the trick they are sadly mistaken.

How in the hell did we go from the Jarvis years of having CBS cameras in his living room every year to suggestions that we are ready for the Patriot League?

Do Patriot League coaches make $500,000 plus plus a  year?

Even in the reviled Penders era, no one thought like this.

Has any other team fallen so far, so fast?

I'll add another Jack quote, one he used last year: from the penthouse to the outhouse."

Thanks, Karl.

When things were going well for GW a couple of years back in all of his public comments about the team, Karl Hobbs seemed obsessed about lowering fan expectations. 

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!

Are you Bobo the Clown? I heard the circus lost its clown named Bobo and lo and behold I come here and find him. I have notified the circus to come and retirieve their clown asap. Comparing GW basketball to the Iraq war is just so over the top that one just has to wonder about your judgment. But Bobo is an appropriate name for you - generally reserved for clowns and dogs.

Bigfan, you give thanks to Karl for reaching the outhouse but do not offer any thanks to him for reaching the penthouse?  That seems fair.

I really wish that people could put this situation into some semblance of context.  Was Karl at fault for recruiting players who were cleared to play by the NCAA?  Did GW officials prohibit or even discourage him from recruiting Omar, JR or Maureece?  When the NCAA finally got their shit together and cracked down on fraudulent prep schools, did Karl put up a fight saying that GW should still be recruiting players from these schools?  Did Karl have any choice (other than to quit) but to put up with GW's blatant overreaction to all of this by overly toughening their admission requirements?  In addition to players who openly wanted to come here but now couldn't, how many others also may have wanted to but never even declared GW as a possibility due to the harsh crackdown on academics?  Did anyone at the time think it was a bad idea to offer scholarships to two former ACC starters (Cheyenne Moore and Wynton Witherspoon)?

Rest assured that I don't think that Karl has handled everything perfectly both on and off the court.  However, this sentiment that the reason we are now where we are is all Karl's fault borders on insane.  What I also find somewhat incredulous is when posters like Bigfan who include KH's salary as yet another reason why he should be canned (as if you people are signing the check).  By the way, my understanding is that KH earns a bit more than the figure being tossed around here; I hope that piece of news didn't cause anyone's blood pressure to rise.

In short, what I sadly see is a diminishing fan base based on attendance, coupled with many loyalists who no longer care about the heights that KH once helped this program reach.  Then again, I know a number of Maryland fans who wanted Gary Williams fired three years removed from winning a national championship.  The "what have you done for me lately" crowd exhibits less and less patience with each passing year so I do understand where the folks like Bobo are coming from.  In my mind, it really is a shame.

Lighten up, Francis.

Some good memories for GW over the past 20 years are:

1. Getting past the first round in the NCAA's in the 90's and playing a decent game against Michigan in the sweet 16

2. Having Jarvis appear on national TV as the face of the program

3. Getting to 6th in the nation

4. Beating Maryland and Michigan State back to back in one weekend

5. Having 3 players land in the NBA

6. Winning the A-10 Tourny

7. Scoring some top 100 national recruits

8. Beating Xavier and Syracuse on their floors on national TV

9. Beating UMass (ranked #1 in the country)

10. Going undefeated at home for a season

11. Being featured in USA Today, Sports Illustrated

That list could go on, but one thing that sticks out to me is that none of this happened under the current administration (except #7 - with Copes coming next year).  So I do think Seneca raises a good point in getting to what does the current admin want to see happen with the program?  Fixing up the Smith Center is great, but a lot of other things need to happen for the next 20 years to be like the last. 

A lot of the things on this list happened under Hobbs.  So the question is, what happened over the past few years to change that and where are things going?  If the admin is going to phone it in with the program, we don't need to go to the Patriot League, the CAA sounds like a better fit.

So let me get this straight, I'm supposed to feel sorry for KH who earns in excess of $500K because he gets hassled by a handful of fans on a message board (but by absolutely no one else) while millions are scrapping by to make ends-meet.  Give me an M-Fing break.  If you can't take the (minimal) heat here, you are in the wrong damn profession. 

 I don't think anybody's saying you should feel sorry for him..Just that he won't be fired.

Shouldn't people have less and less patience with each passing year if each passing year is another losing season, MV?  Seems like a rational viewpoint to me. 

Bobo, theoretically the answer is yes.  However:

a) Last season was not a losing season.  The team finished 1 game over 500 and made a postseason tournament.  Even if you are dissatisfied with a 16-15 record, you would have to admit that last season was infinitely better than the preceding two.

b) Last season's success was largely in part due to a freshman who has yet to play this season.  Injuries are part of the game and obviously play a role in a team's won-loss record.  They should also be treated as a factor when evaluating whether to retain a coach.

c) Copes and Davis are coming.  Just like you don't want to retain KH solely because of this, I don't want this to be ignored when evaluating KH's status. 

What I do take exception to (and I'm not saying it was you Bobo who said it) is this misguided feeling that KH supporters make excuses for him every year.  I have never been a "wait till next year" kind of person, but this year without Lasan combined with next year with Copes, Davis and Lasan legitimately screams in an upbeat manner to any GW fan to do just that.

GW went 6-10 last year in the A10 with no significant victories in the OOC.  That's a losing year and piling up wins vs mostly junk OOC teams should not impress anyone.

I just have a hard time seeing how Hobbs can justify an extention on his contract after next season.   This looks like the the worst GW team in the 20 years I've been following the team.  Lets be generous and say they go 4-12 in the A10 this year.  With Copes and Kromah they improve but they still will likely struggle to get open looks in the half court and give up 3s on D next year as well.  How about a much improved 9-7 in 2011-2012?

That's a 27-52 record in the A10 over a 5 year span.  For that GW is expected to give Hobbs another 4-5 years at $550k+ per season? Another $2.5 million for Hobbs for that record? Really? How could anyone justify that expense?

Maybe DEA is right that GWU will give Hobbs one more shot after this horrible year and that he'll have to win BIG to continue as GW's coach.  I just have a hard time seeing this team plus Copes + Kromah getting to the 11-12+ A10 wins neccessary to bring him back.  Generally delaying neccessary decisons do not make them less painful.

bobo, you win the prize for the most ridiculous argument that I have EVER read on the web.  You are arguing about whether Hobbs should be extended AFTER the record you project over the next 1 2/3 seasons?  That is just hilarious.

Previously, 'thinker' said that my scepticism towards Chris Fitzgerald was the most ridiculous thing he's ever read in the history of the world wide web.  So it looks like I've steped up my game.  Thanks Thinker.

Similar to our views on the future of Chris Fitzgerald at GWU I guess we can conclude 'thinker' don't see eye to eye on Karl Hobbs either.  I can live with that.

What is not speculative is that in the last 3 seasons we were 16-32 in conference and the prospects this year are for more of the same, if not worse, as this team is not nearly as good as last year's 6-10 team.  Remember last year we were 10-3 out of conference, this year we are 3-5 with an RPI of 310.  We are an incredibly bad team, one of the worst in the country.  Our level of ineptitude has been masked somewhat by playing one of the weakest schedules in the country.  We have drawn 3700 in 4 games in our refurbished arena.  The ONLY reason not to completely clean house is what would amount to an almost certain loss of our best recruit in years. 

 We are not one of the worst teams in the country...stop being so overdramatic 

over-dramatic? Simply impossible on gwhoops.com.

Current Real Time RPI is 310 out of 348 possible teams.  Strength of Schedule is 300.  

I wish I was being overdramatic.  MSC gave you the numbers that said why we are one of the worst teams in the country.  If you would like, I can start quoting shooting percentages.  Or point to losses to Boston University (4-7); Wilmington at home (3-4) or Navy (3-8).  Or even say that I have now been to 6 of our 8 games and have seen us look lost on both offense and defense.  Now, please support your contention that we are not.

 Because we are 3-5 and could very easily have four more wins.  We're not good but we aren't the worst in the country either. 

GW could easily have been 7-1 right now???

Let's just agree that we are the worst GW team we'e seen in 20 years.   Can we agree on that? 

I called earlier, please come get your clown. Bobo is here and he is awaiting pick-up. And I guess another one escaped too - Free Quebec. You can find him here too. Worst team in 20 years? Only a clown can pronounce that after just 8 games.

Obviously I mean based on what we've seen so far.  C'mon.

Do you disagree, based on what we've seen so far? 

 I'm sorry but I don't consider a team that's two games under 500 to be one of the worst in the country. This is just a couple of the clowns on this board making exaggerated statements because their vendetta against the coaching staff is not shared by the rest of the GW fanbase. I'm not even sure "Bobo" or "Long Suffering Fan" like GW basketball. They never post when the team wins, only self-serving and melodramatic rants when we lose. 

These irritating  whiners who want to beat Hampton at home.

True fans are patriots of their soon-to-be lower level Patriot League team.

Grow up crybabies and take what Karl Hobbs is paid more than half a million a year to dish out.

And like it.

Let's discuss real-life topics like: why having a mac and cheese option makes our new concession stand the best in the universe.

OK, I will modify my statement and say that over the first 8 games, we are playing like we are one of the worst teams in the country.  Instead of name calling, how about backing up your statements DEA.  I know it cannot be the won loss record.  OK, here are some other numbers.  One of our wins was against Marist, with an RPI of 288.  This is our signature win after 8 games.  Our other 2 wins, both at home, were against  Nevada by 2 points (RPI 314) and Towson at home by 4 points (RPI 299).  BTW, did you watch us get spanked by Navy (RPI 294) on a neutral court.  Yes, I was there.  Were you at Towson?  Yes I watched that debacle also.  See where Boston University, who blew us out in the first 8 minutes of the game, just lost at home to LaSalle.  We have given you some numbers, now give us some numbers to show us why we are wrong.  Or is it just your talent assessment of the players that has caused you to make your statements.   GW basketball is something that I look forward to for 8 months a year.  And yes, I am  pretty POed that the bunch we have in charge has run this program into the ground to the point where we are so bad.  And yes, I am one of the good fans, as I continue to show up.  And will continue to do so.  But unless I see a change (which starts with a major house cleaning), my support will drop from its current level to one (maybe 2) seats per year, beginning next season.

DEA, I know you are new to this board and it seems relatively new to the program.  I've been supporting this team for 20 years and have a Hobbs backer up until this season.  LSF has probably been going to GWU games longer than you've been on this earth.

"Self serving rants"?  It doesn't seem that you even know what that phrase means so instead of childish name calling you should concentrate on facts and try to make a rational arguement.

correction:  The "Towson" debacle that I referred to was really the "Mason" debacle.

DEA also said that our lack of confidence in the coaching staff "is not shared by the rest of the GW fanbase".

Really?  Does DEA have ANY evidence for that claim? Any evidence at all?  Of course he doesn't.

First of all, let's put to rest whether this is the worst GW team in the past 20 years.  Or at the very least, save the discussion until after the season.  Qualifying the statement by stating "after the first 8 games" does not help your argument.  Since we had never lost to BU under Hobbs, one could make the statement after the first game.  Or for that matter, after the first 5 minutes of the first game.  We can all agree that the team has underachieved.

It's unfortunate that many of you are opting not to take my advice regarding this season.  Once again, this year is not about wins and losses (at least as far as whether KH is brought back next season or not is concerned).  Whine all day long about how KH does not deserve a free pass this year but the fact is that he gets one.  Whine about his record over the past 3+ seasons but the counter argument is his record over the past 7+ seasons.

And since they were mentioned in this thread, I'll point out that UNCW just knocked off Wake Forest while dreadful La Salle lost to Villanova by just 3 points.

Well Bobo do you have any evidence that  it is shared by the rest of the fanbase? Just because some posters here (we have no idea how many) feel that way does not prove anything either. DEA can make his claim just a validly as you can.

We really don't know the feelings of all the GW fans so I wouldn't say definitively either way.  

But there was a poll on this board (unscientific) that was decidedly anit-Hobbs.  We have heard consistent grumblings from fans in the stands and those grumblings seem to be growing louder each losing season (anecdotal).  The strongest evidence of GW fans lack of confidence in the coaching staff would have to be the lack of fans in the stands.  700-800 actual bodies for GW home games is an unquestioned indictment of the fans on thier misgivings of this coaching staff.

Not that bobo ever needs help, but I would say that I have been disappointed by the fact that we really haven't developed any serious post players in the past decade other than Pops. I think we have run through so many big men who are just potential and no results by the senior year. In fact, Hobbs has a large does of Senioritis--for one reason or another.

I remember Dokun, who, for 3 seasons was one of my favorite hidden talents, absolutely having his game come apart by the end of December of his senior campaign. Hollis' final season experience could have been all injury, but there was a sense that it was just more than that. We have one group of seniors who have taken the ride all the way. At best, you could say that Hobbs is a bad judge of portential at the college level. I do believe that it is something else.

Like LSF, I went from 4 tickets to 2 tickets to no tickets. The program makes no compelling argument to be a season ticket holder. After 30 years, it is traumatic. Going to games becomes routine, but when you can't give them away, it is almost a crime. Then, one day, you get tired of looking at a bad game with an empty seat next to you and you stop going as well. GW basketball on a bad day is not worth the hassle of getting to the Smittie.

My point, btw, was watching what happened to Rice. His whole season was a mess-up affair. As we found out with Lasan's injury, Hobbs' program is so fragile. It is constantly searching for an answer. Maybe they are better than what we perceive, but we have no way of knowing since we play such a crappy schedule. For that matter, all GW sports should be reviewed. There seems to be a stagnation in several of the programs. At the same time as we are recruiting students first, I fear that we don't have a slew of Joes around.

Dolphin - you just hit the nail on the head with your last paragraph. Now you know why it is not so laughable (as others have termed it) that we should have discussion about the future role of sports at GW and whether the A-10 is the best place for us going forward.

With upcoming games vs Patriot League rivals Lehigh, Bucknell, Colgate and Navy remaining tickets are going fast.   So get your season tickets now becase you don't want to be suck at home when the Lafayette Leopards come to town!

If you want to argue that GW should drop down from the A-10, that's a valid discussion, but calling out people because they want their team to win, they think a 3-5 record against the teams we've played sucks, or arguing that Hobbs still has the support of the fanbase, are all pretty ridiculous. The outcomes of all those arguments is pathetic.  Gee, maybe the team is as good as the team that won 9 games a few years ago.  Wow, we came within 7 against Navy on a neutral court.  Hurray, all the people who stopped showing up think Hobbs is a great coach, they just think it's more interesting to watch reruns of American Idol.  Whoopee. 

Alumnus the problem is that we've seen this before. It would be instructive if Herve would post the threads following such infamous moments when GW blew a lead to Fairfield or lost to AU.  The same sentiments being expressed today were expressed then. However subsequent to those games we managed to win two A-10 tournaments and reach the NCAAs 3 straight years.

My point being this could turn yet again and since we don't know for sure at a minimum perhaps we should let the rest of the season play out before we state that this team is the worst GW team in 20 years. The biggest problem with many here is the rush to judgment. If KH is as bad as you say don't you think it will be born out over the remainder of the season? Won't there be time to deal with it then? I just find it a bit unseemly to constantly rip a guy who led GW to its highest heights ever. There is a right way and a wrong way to deal with this situation. Posting free shots here on a daily basis that state the same thing over and over again seems to accomplish nothing other than perhaps make the poster feel better that he vented. At the end of the day, as many have posted, barring something cataclysmic, KH is likely here next year. You may not like it but you should start getting used to it. If you have the energy to blast the guy for next year and one-half then so be it. I just see way more productive uses of time given the situation like supporting our players on the chance that maybe things won't be as bad as expected. And if they are as bad as predicted, then the situation will likely take care of itself over time.

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DM, I seem to recall a serious post player whose name rhymed with Dob Riggs who would take issue with that.

Asa season ticket holder since 1979 in Section 105 and then Section 109 (the revse section after the remodeling), I am seriously concerned about the loss of

I give up.  I didn't touch any button to get the same message repeated over and over.

To make it brief, we have lost a lot of people in my section over the past three years and I am concerned that they will not be replaced by others.

 If they've left that quickly I think that says more about them then anything. Let's face it, GW students and alumni are as fairweather as fans can get.(present company excluded) The tickets are cheap, you get a great view and it takes an hour and a half out of your day. Give me a break. My problem with this constant "world is ending" attitude is that we're EIGHT games into the season. With besides our PG,  very inexperienced bunch of guys playing our skill positions. It's been disappointing so far sure but I would expect these types of rants in February not now. Let's just see how things develop. 

• http://gwhoops.com/default.aspx?search_text=1%2f2%2f2003
• http://gwhoops.com/default.aspx?search_text=12%2f24%2f2003

Can all of you please stop wit thr rants about hobbs and his coaching staff.  All everyone cares about is winning and the fact is Hobbs has proven he can do this.  Also you cannot get rid of the guy with the economic state right now.  Hobbs has arguably one of his most talented recruting classes coming in next yr.  You get rid of him and Rolan is gone and therefore say goodbye to the so called god child Copes.  Let him have another year and see where he is atthe end of next season with a yr under Copes' belt. 

You cannot get to angry about this season.  They lost Hollis after last season who was by far their best player.  They also lost their best player this season in Kromah.  Give the other players a chance to step up and earn some confidence and see what happens.  Stop complaining about everything.  When it comes down to it you all are going to continue to follow Colonial basketball so what is the point of complaining suck it up and cheer maybe the players will respond. 

I have been one of those who has been ripping into Hobbs and the team's performance, but I hear what some posters are saying.  Maybe it is only fair to wait after the season is finished (or almost finished) to really weigh in about where things are at.  But I think everyone should be fair and brutally honest with their assessment at that point.  As much as you may or may not be a fan of Hobbs and JK, it comes down the program, and what is best for it going forward.  As a GW alum I just want to see the program get back on track.  Whoever can make that happen I will support.

Its as if the 3 years prior to the last 8 games didn't exist.  (Those unsold season tickets happened before the start of this season). 

I'll stop commenting on the performacne of the team in-season when Republicans stop commenting on the performance of the President before his term is over.

Sit down and shut up, LSF.  It's wrong for you to comment on the team or the coach -- or even the future -- during the season.  Please hold all comments until the end of the season, at which time you will be told that you have to wait to see how he does with Copes before your opinion has any validity.  So really Herve should just disband this board for the next 16 months, lest Hobbs' confidants have their fee-fees hurt by the opinion of a few fans.

For those who say we should keep Hobbs so we get Copes, do we then not fire him because we run the risk of losing Copes?  Give me a break.  We shouldn't let one guy (who ultimately we don't know how he will actually turn out) hold he program hostage.

And while we talk about GW players who almost were, anyone seen Pitt's Brad Wannamaker play recently.  Real good.  Boy do I wish he had chosen us.  And boy is he probably glad he didn't.

As for the argument that if we keep Hobbs to get Copes, we then have to keep Hobbs to keep Copes, that's not necessarily true. Programs usually let recruits out of their LOIs after a coaching change if the recruit asks, but as far as I know, there is no such easy way out for current players. Meaning Copes would have to choose between staying at GW with the guys he's played with for a year and a new coach, or sitting out a year to go to a new school. If Hobbs and Roland aren't here next year, it's pretty much guaranteed Copes is gone. Once he's already been here for a year, the chances of him leaving are much lower.

Alright boys and girls, let's establish a reasonable line.  This is just my opinion and I am not attempting to control what can and can not be said here.  But what I am trying to establish the line between what should and should not be said here.  Seneca, it's unfair to compare the posts of late to what was written after the Fairfield or AU games.  What has taken place to date this season has been a sustained level of really bad basketball.  We have the SOS that was plotted in advance and the RPI we deserve.  This isn't an outcry based on one horrible loss.  This is based on one month's body of work,  Big difference.

Is this the worst team of the past 20 years?  Pointless discussion until the season is over. (Instead, you're welcome to ask whether it's the worst 8 game stretch of the past 20 years, if you are so inclined to research.)

Discussions about what needs fixing (short of firing coaches) should be encouraged.  Some will say that our offense has been OK but shots simply aren't falling.  Others have ideas as to how to score more points.  Should Dwayne Smith be starting?  Has Daymon Warren earned more minutes?  How do we get more consistency out of TJ, BB and as of late, TT?  All great discussions.

I recently provided a statistical analysis to help determine whether our defense works.  Unfortunately, only one poster responded (thanks Danjsport).  Most of the rest of you were too busy polishing your pitchforks preparing your next passage that would surely be the magic words needed to get Coach Hobbs fired.

Personally, I would love to see the fire Hobbs mob calm down, at least until the end of the season.  This isn't a "let's see how the season plays out" response since I suspect that this season will not play out very well.  My reasoning is because I don't believe the man is in any real danger of losing his job in 2010-11 regardless of this year's record.  Therefore, the serenading of "Fire Hobbs" sounds equal parts stupid and pointless to me.

Yeah, if Copes is that great and he's only coming to a struggling team because of his uncle, and maybe Hobbs, I really look forward to how he reacts if he comes here and his uncle and Hobbs are fired after his freshman season.  That's thinking positively!

Alumnus, all I was saying is that the slippery slope argument doesn't work here. If we want Copes, we need to keep Hobbs on for next season. However, if things don't work out next year and Hobbs is let go, that doesn't necessarily mean Copes goes, as by then he will presumably have other reasons beyond the coaching staff to want to stay at GW. Hopefully the team rebounds next year with the additions of Copes, Davis, and a healthy Kromah and Hobbs and Houston are deservedly brought back. My point was that while it is true that we need to keep the coaching staff in place for next season in order to hold onto our best recruit in recent memory, we aren't, as Hatchet Man and some others have suggested, required to then keep Hobbs and Roland until Copes graduates.

Meant to add this at the end: regardless of results.

has anyone thought about whether eric copes is reading this thread?

 It's funny how many people on this board can see the future..I will tell you that this team next year with Lasan back and one of the best centers in the country coming on board will not be losing to Wilmington or Navy. Face it..Karl saved himself with this recruiting class like it or not

I am agnostic about Hobbs.  The real questions center on Where is GW?  Where can GW go? I believe there is a negative synergy at work here as BCS football has focused on NCAA tourney money as a source of money to feed their football problem. In this I agree with those who think even recent history means little in the face of the increasing concentration money and power in college football and basketball.  I think it is naive to think the BCS and basketball bluebloods didn't look at Butler in the championship and say think this better not happen again.Not a conspiracy just a shared assumption about who should be in and out

More importantly its my assumption GW needs a lot more deep and medium pocket enthusiam just to tread water.  Look at Charlotte big underacheivers who just happen to be starting a football program!! Talk about money and even short of that GW would be in far better shape with more alumni and student enthusiasm.

THIS IS NOT A CALL TO REHASH WHY or talk about marketing shortcomings after going to games since Jarvis it just isn't going change that much without winning and winning is tied to the larger college arms and enthusiam race and I just think the long term trends are poor.

It could happen, but its not obvious its more like filling an inside straight. Again it would not bother me if Hobbs left or although the senior AD staff has been great to me they could go too, but for those who compalin GW lacks vision. I agree its not 20/20, but to compete in the A-10 its money first and foremost with broad school spirit second.

So it would crush me to go Patriot League, but as Clint Eastwood said in the Unforgiven, Deserves Got Nothing To Do With It

It would crush all of us to go the the Patiot League even though given the pathetic lack of support for the team and its increasing inability to compete in the A-10, I would understand it.  I have faulted the Athletic Department in the past for not reaching out to our large alumni base, but on the other hand the alumni are also to blame.  I take second place to very few in terms of bitching about the team...or going to the games and supporting it.  As bad as this team is, the fans who stopeed supporting it...that was wrong.

Thanks FredD.  Well stated.

Let's make clear one thing - I don't think anybody here WANTS to go to the Patriot League. I'm saying that we need a whole bunch of things to change or we will definitely slide in that direction with that probably being our ultimate destination. Remember this President came from Hopkins. So he has been involved with a successful university that had a much lower sports profile. The Board of Trustees also doesn't seem too enamored with sports at GW. Sure they fixed up the Smith Center - but they had to or the building would have fallen in a few years. It will take much more to stave off the inevitable. More money, more fan support, more flexibility in admissions, more vision. I don't know if we have the will to have "more". But remember it is not just a basketball question - tthere are other sports and costs to consider at GW. My bet is within 5 years GW makes this move absent a fundamental structural change in how sports are emphasized. If you don't like that prospect, my suggestion is that everyone make their voices known - not to the AD but to the Board of Trustees and the President. The clock is ticking.

Chairman Ramsey is very enamored with GW sports and actively involved. 

Then maybe Chairman Ramsey ought have the Board cause GW to spend a little more money on athletics. My understanding is that the athletic budget has not grown in real terms in years despite more and more expenses.  They having to make more with less. Coaches salaries may rise but that is not guns and butter for athletics.

Johns Hopkins University plays its home games at  the 8,500 seat  Homewood Stadium in Baltimore MD.  They have won 9 NCAA Championships since 1971 and the team's continued success is a great source of school pride to students, faucilty and alumni throught the world.  Johns Hopkins main sport is lacrosse.  GW's primary sport is basketball.  If Stephen Knapp has learned any lessons from his time in Baltimore is that one prominant and successful sports team can unify a school campus and greatly aid the university as a whole.

Seneca, I feel as if you're being a bit too cryptic in this discussion.  Rather than answer back with a "you'll just have to take my word for it" response, what do you feel are the specifics which need to happen in order for GW to continue in the A10 (and hopefully be a thriving member)?  Economic times have changed but they've changed for everyone.  We're hamstrung by the size of our arena but this has always been the case. (Nor do I feel as if a $40 million+ renovation to improve our athletic facilities would have made much sense if the master plan was to cut or deemphasize athletics.)

Is this really the result of several disappointing basketball seasons (which were preceded by four very successful ones)?   I feel we've turned a corner recruitingwise since the aftermath of Omargate meaning that this has been a problem area that appears to be resolved to a large extent.  So, we've got better recruits, a better facility, and are part of a conference which has elevated itself within the past few years.  With a number of things seemingly going for us, why is now the time to reevaluate our status?

It's really hard to know what Knapp or the admin really thinks of the basketball program (or if they think about it at all).  I agree that the Smith Ctr. was fixed up because GW as a school needs that type of a building.  I don't think they did that just for the men's basketball program.

It's just a guess, but I think the current admin just doesn't have basketball very high on its list of priorities.  The school wants to spend hundreds of millions on a new engineering building, and Knapp is trying to raise money for research.  I think Knapp wants GW to be more like the University of Chicago than Northwestern (for a Chicago comparison).  It's just not that realistic that GW will be on the national basketball scene in any meaningful way  - like Georgetown, or a school in a more powerful conference.  Yes, there is Temple and Xavier, but the A-10 is still a mid-major conference at its core. 

There really could be some sort of conference realignment in the next few years and teams like Temple and X could be on there way to something better, and the A-10 will be very weak.  GW will probably cut its losses at that point and head to a lower conference.  This is not what any of us want, but it does come down to the admin and the direction they want to go in.  We would jump up and down if GW did that, but my guess is there would not be much of a protest beyond this message board. 

I don't think this has to happen.  GW will have a couple of really good players on its team next year in Kromah and Copes (assuming they show up and are healthy).  It's a small chance but maybe there may be a little bit of lightning in a bottle with those guys.  But we need it because if the program doesn't turn around soon something has to happen.  There is no way the school will continue to throw money at a losing program.

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Bump.  This is one of the better threads as to where we were one year ago, and despite the pissing matches that invariably occur on this board, many different view points are very well articulated.  In particular, I enjoyed the post by Former Player, Current Fan, as being right on.