URI, GW and St. Bonnies interested among others.  2011-12 First Team NEPSAC AA.

2013 kid

Is this the first NEPSAC kid of the Lonergan era?   With his New England roots, Hobbs recruited the league constantly.

Some highlights.

Some highlights.

That's pretty impressive video.  Gatoraide Mass player of the year.

Hope it works out like the last Worcester point guard we recruited.

NBEBasketball 5/28/12.

- Rene Castro holds offers from George Washington, St. Bonaventure, Rhode Island, Seton Hall and Duquesne with Pittsburgh and South Carolina showing interest.

Omo Moses was also Mass. Player of the Year.  Just sayin'.

Omo Moses.

We have a lot to be proud of in that interview.

In any GW graduate with such achievements and educational program, much less a basketball player with such a combination of mathematical mind and tremendous ability to articulate--two very different areas.

George Washington making a run at Castro

Alex Kline
TheRecruitScoop.com

Talk about it in Basketball Recruiting Board

In a state filled with talent like Massachusetts, the competition for the Gatorade Player of the Year in the state is vast and full of worth players. 2013 point guard Rene Castro was the clear winner though, and as an underclassmen he will return to Worcester Academy for his senior season to defend his throne.

The 6-foot-2 floor general climbed the charts as his stock rose game after game during an electrifying junior season.

Castro has the ability to score in a variety of ways and be a true point guard by getting his teammates involved on all cylinders. He fairs well in the open court and in transition. Castro works well together with his AAU teammate, Jaylen Brantley , another fellow point guard from BABC. His Basketball IQ is strong and his speed gets him past his defenders to make plays or simply score. Before he heads to college, Castro must improve on his defense and must be more consistent on that end. His athletic ability isn't up there with most guards, and he will not be the flashiest guard in the world, but Castro gets the job done on the court and makes his teammates better.

With a dozen current offers, Castro is not focused on his recruitment at the moment.

Seton Hall, St. Bonaventure, Pittsburgh, Duquesne, Towson, Delaware, Northeastern, George Washington, UMass, Rhode Island, Boston and Wofford have all offered the 2013 guard. He also has interest from South Carolina and is yet to take any unofficial visits.

While he has not dipped into his recruitment much, the BABC talent realizes that George Washington is recruiting him the hardest and likes his relationship with head coach Mike Lonergan.

As a few more schools could potentially offer this summer after the Nike Peach Jam in July, Castro will eventually take visits and narrow down his list with a possible commitment in the fall. Whether or not that happens, his stock will continue to rise as he is one of the best in the class of 2013.

Hoop Dreams Mag ‏@HoopDreamsmag
Temple and Alabama are the latest schools to offer 2013 PG Rene Castro BABC (MA)

Seems like most of our recruits are being recruited the hardest by Lonergan, among other schools/coaches. Good to hear.  

Hey, B E & C... funny how that is. Also funny how our recruiting has been going a "bit" better these days, too.

Interview

NBEBasketball

Top Performer of the Morning:

Rene Castro (BABC 2013) – BABC trailed by as many as 16 points in the second half of a morning game against Wisconsin Playground but Castro simply refused to lose. He showed incredible toughness in keeping his team together and attacking the rim relentlessly to fuel a comeback. While more effective off the dribble, Castro also made perimeter shots on his way to 10-14 shooting for 24 points. The numbers he put up and shots he made were impressive but it was the intangibles that stuck out to me. Castro’s ferocity and intensity only got stronger with his team behind and the entire BABC squad seemed inspired by their leader. He acknowledged after the game that with the team shorthanded here at Peach Jam (Wayne Selden and Goodluck Okonoboh didn’t make the trip) it was his responsibility to step up and be more of a scorer. Castro played that role brilliantly and showed the character and winning ways that are such strengths of his.

Recruiting Updates:

Rene Castro (BABC 2013) – Castro’s recruitment has been on the fringe between the mid and high major levels for some time now and that really hasn’t changed. George Washington, Pittsburgh, Duquesne, Rhode Island, St. Bonaventure, Temple, and Seton Hall are the main schools involved as this point but Castro acknowledged that GW and Pitt have made him a priority. They, along with anyone else who wants to get seriously involved with his recruitment are recruiting Castro as a true point guard and not as a combo guard. He views himself as a leader and someone who can run a team and is only interested in college programs that are going to give him that opportunity.

If this Rene doesn't work out, does Rene Harry have any eligibility left?

it would great Rene enrolls at GW. for those who remember the big discussion of Loyd (Ducks) and recruiting over in general, is this a case of GW recruiting over Joe a Parade all-america? i'm fine with it we should always look to improve the team and competition is good.

This doesn't seem analogous to Loyd to me.   Remember that next year, the only guards on the roster will be Kromah, McDonald and Savage (and Kromah will be in his last year). There will be lots of playing time for Castro, McDonald, and Savage. All 3 could easily log starter's minutes - plus in ML's system, Castro and McDonald could probably work very well together on the court at the same time becuase McDonald has the size and toughness to guard a two guard and they have the basketball IQ to make a devastating backcourt combo on the court together at times.

FQ, note that if Kromah graduates after this season, he can take his last year of eligibility anywhere and play immediately.  I think the staff has to have a solid contingency option for that eventuality (even if Kromah fully intends to stay at this point).  I think we'll pick up at least two guards for 2013, three if Kromah goes.

Five days later, same message...

Asked if he has any favorites, Castro replied, “Not really, but I could say George Washington and Duquesne [are coming at me] the hardest right now.” Castro is hoping to make his commitment before the high school season begins and he would like to take a visit to George Washington.

re kromah graduating and then going somewhere else -- i may not have this exactly right but i am pretty sure he has to enroll in a graduate program that gw does not offer.  and i think  he then needs to get a release from gw.  remember the st. joe's player who tried to get one more year -- i think at uab -- and st. joe's denied the release.

and of course the key is that he has to graduate.  i have no idea whether he is on track or not.

Let me make it clear that I have no idea at all if Kromah is considering this.  I'm just pointing out that he'll have the option of leaving relatively easily if he is so inclined.  I don't think ML is the douchebag that Martelli is to hold him up if he wants to go.

In the St. Joes thing there was clearly some kind of personal thing going on between the player and coach.  That kind of thing gives the school a black eye.  First, I don't think that Lasan is a very good fit for the way that ML wants to play anyway. And, honestly how ML & Co are recruiting I would imagine that they'd be just as happy to have an extra scholarship if Lasan decided to leave.  Finally, I can't imagine that ML would want to poison the well with local teams by screwing with a local player.

 Lasan has been on the athletic's dean list every semester so I'd be surprised if he's not on track to graduate. In fact, I believe at one point he was announced to have over a 3.5gpa (along with Kopriva).

As FQ aludes, if Kromah leaves we'll end up with McSavage as the only true guards returning.  I think the coaches would rather have a happy 5-yr senior with two newcomers rather than three frosh and a full underclassmen backcourt.

From everything I've heard, the coaching staff LOVES Kromah's potential, they just think he has a lot more to give than he's shown so far.

So, BM, we're good with "McSavage"? 

No matter the nomenclature, I'm hoping these guys succeed big time, individually and together. GW's been lucky with some good guards over the years, but I still recall Tallent and Morris running the fast break off of a Burwell outlet pass, with Harper as the following 3rd man. The two guards always put on a great 3 second show, no matter which of the 3 ended up with the basket. It was better than ballet, and I've seen a lot of good ballet. I hope to see something akin to that this year and down the road.

Nice to see so much optimism.

 With what little we know about those two, I'm looking forward to some spectacular fast break alley-oops from McDonald to Savage.

 Apparently he also plays baseball.

 Shoulders are square, stance is good, bathead could be a bit straigher, but looks like a player.

Can we fly Carl to DC for this kid's visit?

XOFan

Hoop Dreams Mag ‏@HoopDreamsmag
BABC in a close one against STL Eagles. Mike Lonergan(GW) and Kevin Willard(Seton Hall) are on hand to watch '13 G Rene Castro

 @_chrisbradley

@_chrisbradley: Rene Castro is working on narrowing list/visits, per WA coach Jamie Sullivan. He said Pitt/ Duquesne/GW likely, several others in the mix.

Adam Finkelstein ‏@FinkelsteinNERR
Worcester Academy guard Rene Castro also landed an offer from Butler at yesterday's workout according to WA head coach Jamie Sullivan

E$PN says ML was also in attendance at Castro's first workout during the open period.

Castro thead on Butler board.

This was from Sunday late afternoon, so I assume they are talking about last weekend.  Looks like both Severe and Castro were in town.

Terrence Payne ‏@terrence_payne
Worcester Academy 2013 PG Rene Castro is taking an official visit to George Washington this weekend

 Pitt just signed a '13 PG. one less school to compete with. 

Looks like he's visting GW this upcoming weekend.

 from that thread post...

Junior Member Posts: 13 Joined: Jun 2012  Reputation: 0

RE: Rene Castro - 2013 Point Guard (Offered) Just saw a tweet from 8/12 where his HS coach basically said that Pitt, Duquense,and GW were his favorites. Not sure who else has gotten involved within last month, but with Pitt presumably out of the picture, gotta like our chances versus those others. Hopefully we get him to campus soon. Really want this kid.

Also from Butler thread:

They're in to see Rene Castro this morning

Looks like they're trying to short-circuit the GW visit.

This is pretty much the exact thing they did to get castros babc teammate Chrabascz.   They weren't even on his his list, then Stevens shows up does some magic and he's committed two weeks later.  Hard to compete with the national title games 

Let's hope Washington DC somehow trumps Indy....however Indy does have more Golden Corrals within the city limits so that's tough to compete against.

From what I've read, Butler doesn't recruit a whole list of players at once, just one per scholarship, so if the player chooses someone else, Butler moves on.  But it must sound attractive to the player being recruited that all of the focus is on them.

Tuna Can bows to herve's veritable encyclopedic knowledge of the fair city of Indianapolis.

Golden Corral is everything that is great about America, though it does give one pause on the fourth plate observing so many mishappen fellow buffet fans.

With apologies to Hoosiers, that's about all they have to offer Mr. Castro compared to GW being  the nation's capital and offering big city attractions.

Did I mention that the president of the United States has attended a GW game? You won't meet the president at Butler, unless it is the president of Butler.

Beautiful day.... Check.

Great School... Check.

GW atheltes win a couple of games... Check.

Great kids on hoops team... Check.

Recruit falls in love with GW.... ?

 No Twitter watch like we did for Larsen?

 No Twitter watch like we did for Larsen?

 Twitter

 I don't know about meeting the president but you get to go to the NCAA tournament every year and have things like Gameday visit your school.

Thats why they can pop out of nowhere and get these guys.  Having one of the most recognized coaches in the country probably doesn't hurt eithrr

I just picked up lindys they have them second it the conference

Bump.  Let's go CASTRO!   

DavidWoods007: Worcester Academy coach says Rene Castro has visit scheduled to Butler in 2 weeks. @Rcastro24 visiting Duquesne this weekend.

 This kid has the entire A-10 interested

Castro will be between GW and Duquesne. 

The A10 conference is really strong! And the tournament at the Barclay's Arena in Brooklyn is a huge asset to the conference.

Pitt is out of the picture for Castro!

We'll most likely see Castro at the A-10!

We are still very much in the running for Castro. Don't count GW out yet.

Trying not to get my hopes up, but that would mean a guard class of:  One of the best, if not the best 3-point shooter in the area with a 10-3PT effort to his credit; A combo who put up 55 points in a game last year while leading the DMV in scoring; and the Gatorade Mass player of the year whoscoring 23 a game in the tough NEPSAC league.

Throw in JoeMac and Savage and it's going to be one heck of a competition for playing time.

If we get Castro wouldn't we be a little guard heavy?  Not that I don't want the kid who appears to be a nice player, but it seems we need to round out the class with a Forward with Smith and Pellom graduating?

Next year, we'll still have Larsen, Armwood, Garino, Maragkos, Kopriva and Mikic.  I suspect it's a best player avaliable thing.  You can never have too many good guards... or too many good bigs.

 So for you recruiting folks who have actually been involved in the process before, I have a question for you.  I think it's great that ML is going after DMV players.  It makes nothing but sense.  For those who want to play in front of their families and friends, it's a great thing.  But here is the question, is there also strength in recruiting so heavily in the DMV because as we sign players our recruits will have heard of of signees/played with them/played against them, etc. so they know the types of team they are joining?  So, essentially, if you get recruited at St. Bonnies with players from all over the country, you don't know what the team is truly like.  But if you join a team that is made up of a majority of DMV players, you feel some comfort and it might make you a little more apt to choose GW?  Just curious.

More Butler chatter.

 Cant imagine he doesnt commit to Butler on his visit during their Homecoming

Devo, SPOT on.  

He's been very loyal to people who have recruited him hard from the begining.

Seems like Butler might be going harder after PG Graham Woodward from Minnesota than Castro- Stevens recently went to watch him 5 days ago:

RyanJamesMN Ryan James

Butler Coach Brad Stevens will be at Edina Monday to watch and meet with PG Graham Woodward.

Reading the Worcester Academy coaches Tweet's, GW coaches came back to Worcester to watch open gyms twice on September 25 and October 2nd after his official on September 20th- clearly making Castro a priority.  If Castro committs elsehwere, it won't be for a lack of effort on GW's end.  

For those who understand how these things work: Suppose Castro does choose GW, what happens to Nigel Johson?  Same goes for Severe & Nick Griffin (who presumably play the same position)? 

A little concerned he was pretty happy with two schools in the same town (Pitt and Duquesne).  Hoping he hasn't fallen in love with the city of Pittsburgh over DC.

 Adclub, that is why I think it is strange that they signed Nigel Johnson, when Castro and Severe are still in play.  We have another 6-1 pg who will probably be starting for us this season in McDonald.  Will they have 3 really similar players at the same position?  Also, why tell Severe that if he comes to GW he is going to start?  I think GW is in need of other positions - a bigger guard/swing man would be good, as would a power forward.  Pellom is graduating and Armwood only has 2 years left.  I think a lot of people here would be much more excited if we signed Embid than another pg.

I think it definitely raises questions when a team signs three guys at the same position in consecutive recruiting years.  Castro or Severe would be the 3rd at their positions.  If Lasan stayed for his 5th year, then signing Severe would give GW 4 shooting guards plus Garino and two point guards who both could probably play some shooting guard. It just doesn't make sense and seems unlikely that all those players would end up on the roster.

I guess what I'm curious about is to what degree Johnson & Griffin have "signed"?  How binding, to either party, is a verbal commitment? Would, can a school reneg on an offer if they get a superior player? I imagine this isn't a good strategy because it would reflect poorly on the school's program to future signees.

I think at this point you recruit the best player available- there's nothing wrong with having a few guards that can play the same position.  

First, it's important to have competition and second It's also naive to automatically assume all these kids are going to be at GW over the long haul.  With the ease of transferring as well as the trend in transfers GW certainly won't be immune to it.  

I wouldn't trade a single thing in terms of the results that he had during his tenure at UVM- but Coach Lonergan lost probably on average 1-2 kids a year to transfer, from stars to role players, for various different reasons.  That won't just stop happening all of a sudden now that he's at GW.  

Finally, speaking of UVM after our NCAA Tournament trip we had 3 shooting guards that could have all played 30min a game for us- Four McGlynn, Brendan Bald, and incoming transfer Candon Rusin.  So nobody wanted to sign a SG- then in a matter of weeks Bald decided the no longer wanted to play basketball, McGlynn transferred to Towson, and we were left with one SG we went out and had to sign a grad school transfer.  And this was from a 23-win NCAA team.  

My point is, you never know what you're roster is going to look like, even if you think you do.  

To answer the hypothetical from previous poster:  

As far as what would happen to Johnson if hypothetically GW signed Castro as well, a coach generally wouldn't offer a scholarship to and then accept a verbal committment from a kid they didn't 100% plan on adding and want on their roster- so Johnson is coming to GW unless he no longer wants to.  

Now would Johnson be ok with GW adding another PG- another PG that may be bit more high profile- in the same recruiting class?  That all depends on Johnson.  If he's ok and on-board with it, then great and he will be part of the 2013 GW recruiting class- but if he's not- then you'll probably read something on a blog or Twitter that would say,"Nigel Johnson has decommitted from GW and has opened up his recruitment'.

Because nobody has signed a LOI yet, then there is no binding commitment on either player or school's end.   

3 points: 

1) You guy are nuts. When we signed JR Pinnock, we had already landed Ricky Lucas at the exact same position and he was a top 100 player.  We also signed Carl Elliot that year, who at 6'4" 220 or so was expected to get plenty of time potentially off the ball with junior TJ Thompson.   With Lucas signed, plus TJ and Elliot (and Lafonte Johnson), most of this board was VERY down on the Pnnock signing, including me, and thought that the team had more pressing needs than another guard. I learned my lesson, but apparently those of you commenting haven't.

2) LA Fan, you are wrong when you say Severe was promsed a starting job.   Very poor attention to detail on your part.  All he said was that they would start him out as a scorer before making him a slasher, which is decidedly not the same thing as promising him a spot in the starting lineup.

3)  It's been said that Lonergan would like to play 3 guards.  if that's true, then he does need another guard.

1) People seem to have poor reading comprehension if they are interpreting the quote from Severe saying he would start- that's not at all what was being said, and secondarily that's nowhere close to Lonergan's style.  He'd never promise any player a starting position, let alone a freshman who have to earn their way historically with him.  What he would say is something to the effect of "there are a lot of minutes available for you at this/these positions" but that's the extent of it- it's an opportunity.

2) Adclub, think I answered in my previous post but both player and coach are in effect "open" unti a Letter of Intent is signed.  However, it would be poor form and especially frowned upon if Lonergan didn't sign a kid that verballed because he wanted someone better- now if that person is Jabari Parker or Randle or  Beejay Anya  for you local guys and it was all of a sudden their life long dream to play at GW  or someone like that, then I'm sure GW would find a way  to make that work- but that's not reality. 

GW especially wouldn't do that to a kid from an area and presumably from a AAU program he will want to recruit from and establish and long-term relationship with.  The don't shit where you eat thing.  Additonally,  It is more common for high profile recruits to poach kids that have verballed.  Apprently Notre Dame did that  recenrlt with a new recruit that had verballed somwhere else. 

3) Finally- as Free Quebec said- it's crazy to read too much into offering kids at the same positon.  Talent is talent, and you want more of it and not less.  One thing you can be certain of with Lonergan is that  the best players on both sides of the ball that help win basketball games will find their way on the court and that's all that matters. 

*More common for high profile programs to mess with kids that have verballed elsewhere

FQ,

You're missing the point with your Point #1.  This reminds me of the discussion a few years ago on over recruiting or recruiting over that came up with regards to Jon Lloyd.  It's not a short term problem for the SCHOOL to recruit redundancies or recruit more players than can play and then have a competition for who gets to play and who sits.  Whoever isn't good enough to play just sits or transfers out. That's not bad for the SCHOOL in the short term. It does suck for the kid that came to the school thinking they were going to play only to see a player better than him get recruited.

As fans of the TEAM, people may be ok over recruiting.  The kids hate it though.  As far as all of them playing, I don't see it.  FQ, you say ML is going to play 3 gurads.  Well, if GW signs another guard and no one leaves then in 2013, GW will really have 7 guards since Lasan and Garino are really guards.  And they'll have at least 6 in 2014 and 2015.  And the roster will have some real question marks at forward as we don't really know what we have in Paris or Davis.  I understand that some here think that Kopriva has some upside, but I haven't seen that yet. And if ML is going to play 3 guards, Mikic would be playing PF on defense - I haven't seen enough from Mikic on defene or rebounding to think that would work well against top competition. 

So 7 guards seems unlikely.  And if Castro or Severe sign, I'd be pretty doubtful that Griffin, Nigel, and Lasan would all end up on the 2013 roster.

Again, FQ, I get that ML might be glad to have all of those players on the roster - I just don't think all of those players will want to be on the same roster.

BTW the early signing period is between November 14 and 21 -- So these kids could been locked in in 5 weeks.

Much appreciated clarifications.  Interesting point FQ on Pinnock & Ricky Lucas.  I hadn't thought about that.  It is very interesting to me the focus on guard recruitment with obvious gaps in big men.  How many years are we getting out of Armwood? 

Jon Loyd is doing just fine at Oregon. I think he's actually a starter there now.  Perhaps the message board chatter was typically ill-informed? 

To your point, i'm sure it sucked for Ricky Lucas when Pinnock signed. But I'm willing to bet Ricky didn't see it as recruiting over him at the time. In fact, if he had just played better, there would have been plenty of mintues for hm regardless. Regardless, are you suggesting the coaches should not have signed Pinnock becuase it was wrong to do to Ricky? 

It's a guard's game. The more talented ones we have the better. Nobody knows how McDonald and Savage will turn out. If I'm ML I'm still recruiting guards. We need depth and more talent there until proven otherwise. Welcome Nigel, Nick and hopefully Castro too!

 Thinker you hav hinted for weeks now that Lasan won't be returning next year. THere is no evidence of this both on this board or elsewhere. I understand that you've been in the positiion in the past where you've revealed some inside info but that isn't the case here and that should be noted. 

The other thing to remember is that there are 13 men on a basketball roster.  Lonergan likes to play 11.  Nobody takes a scholarship expecting to be #12 or 13, but somebody has to be. I don't think you stop recruiting the best players you can at any position, just becuase you think you have 11 good ones.

(i.e. you could always look at bigs and say with Larsen and Paris and Kopriva and Armwood, plus Jonathan Davis, we're already going to be two deep at each big position, so anyone else we recruit would be 3rd string at a big position, just like any other good... unless it turns out they are better than one of the guys already signed or on board).

The college game has become more and more a guard's game.  Last year for example, LaSalle, Cincinnati, San Diego State and Missouri to name just a few, often played four guards or three guards and a small forward (think Kromah or Garino)  at a time. Each of these teams had five guards (or small forwards) playing double digit minutes.

LaSalle's guard minutes were Pettis-31, Galloway-33, Duren-35, Mills-35 and Peterson18.

Cincinnati's minutes were Kilpatrick-34, Dixon-32, Wright-31, Parker 27 and Guyn-10.

San Diego State's minutes were Jamaal Franklin-30, Tapley-34, Thames-34, Rahon-27 and LaBradford Franklin-12.

Missouri's minutes were Denmon-35, English-34, Dixon-27, Phil Pressey-32 and Matt Pressey-25.

Bottom line is that if the guards can play, Lonergan will find time for them.

i iadvertently posted this elsewhere.  just to get my two cents in...

i'm in favor of recruiting the best player available - to a point.   someone mentioned it would be nice to have more swingmen - that's one thing we've never had a problem recruiting.  i would suggest that pinnock was a swingman, as is garino and even lasan.  would it be nice to have another big in the 13 class? absolutely.  but assuming castro did actually sign would you really rather have one of those scholarships back on the hope you might fill another big?   if they all do sign its true, we'll be slightly guard heavy, but only slightly.  i suspect there would in fact be plenty of minutes for all who earn it.  Lucas lost more minutes to his own limitations than he ever did to pinnock

the real consequence of a castro or severe joining our current group would fall on the '14 class.  i would think that in '14 we would then be focused entirely on bigs. For the '13 season, we would still have armood, larsen, kopriva, maragkos, mikic.  but in 14 it would just be larsen, maragkos, and kopriva.  so whatever freshman we brought in would play meaningful minutes right a way.

my other point is, we haven't even played '12 yet.  it is entirely possible/likely that at the end of the 12 season we have 1 or 2 players transfer.  not lasan, because he will be averaging 15 points a game, 6 rebounds and 5 assists, but someone.  the opened slots would likely be targeted to a big(s).  perhaps another armwood transfer who would become eligible in 14. 

the bottom line is i'm perfectly happy with where we are and trust lonergan to understand the needs of our team.  when lonergan first signed, it was clear we needed bigs so he went and got armwood, larsen, maragkos, kopriva.  we are stronger inside now than we've been in many years.

Adclub...two years of eligibility from Armwood.  Here is what the schollie situation looks like (I think)

FQ,

Jon Lloyd is still there, but not because he didn't get recruited over.  Oregon recruited a bunch of higher rated guards after Lloyd and for a variety of reasons they came and then left.  If any one of several of those other recruits had ended up staying, Lloyd would not be starting or possibly even playing very many minutes. He was seriously recruited over but it still ended up working out for him despite that.  My point at the time was that it would have been smarter for him to come to GW where he would not get recruited over and have a more consistent opportunity to start and play major minutes.

I have always found you to be an exceptionally smart and rational person on this board, but you don't seem to be able to grasp what the recruiting over issue is about.  That's ok, I don't need you to get it, but you keep mising the point.  In the short term recruiting over works well for the SCHOOL, not for the kid.  Kids don't like to get recruited over.  It gives the school a bad name as kids feel mislead.  You can be ok with that - plenty of people are ok with it.  The main issue for recruits is playing time.  When they get recruited they are usually filled with all kinds of notions of how they'll be used and how much they might play.  When you tell a kid those things and then immediately go out and recruit a better player -- that's considered by many to be bad faith.  Again, you can be ok with that, plenty of schools do it. 

DEA,

I have no evidence that Lasan would leave.  I've been clear that I was speculating.  Read what I've said before - essentially

Lasan hasn't played well in the flex.

Lasan, if he graduates, will have the opportunity to transfer ANYWHERE that wants him and be able to play right away.  Lots of kids end up doing that for a variety of reasons.

If Lasan doesn't play better this year, why on earth would he want to play another year in a system that didn't play to his stregnths? I thknk that he'd want to transfer to place where he could have more fun playing.

thinker,

i have great respect for your basketball knowledge and understanding of the recruiting process.  further i find myself usually agreeing with your opinions.  that said, i think there is a world of difference in the manner in which recruits are approached, one coach to the next.  i don't know any college or high school coaches but i know human nature.   i choose to believe that even in the corrupt world of recruiting there are still honest coaches out there.  until i learn otherwise, i choose to believe ml is one of those. 

its entirely possible that ml tells these kids that he plays a rotation of 10 or 11 kids and each kid within that framework has a good chance to prove himself and thus gain even more time.  i'm sure that many coaches will tell 3 different recruits that each will play 35 minutes a game as the "feature scorer or playmaker or whatever"   but nowadays many kids have advisors who will see thru the lies.  i have to believe that for many kids, most of whom believe in themselves, knowing they have a realistic chance of proving they're that guy is enough. 

if ml is telling kids that 5 guards are all gonna get 20+ minutes and that he likes 3 guard sets, thats not "recruiting over" a player.  thats having a chance to star on a winning team.  and i think winning is equally important to many kids.

as for graduate transfers, it seems to me this is harder to accomplish and less likely and less desirable than you suggest.  is a kid really going to go to another school for the right (qualifying)  graduate program just to play on a team he is unfamiliar with, for a single season?  would jabarri edwards really have found another school he wanted to play for and who wanted him and actually had a scholarship they were willing to give for a single year?  and have a graduate program he was interested in that wasn't available at gw?  it seems like there are way too many variables there.  i do think its likely a kid will decide its time to hang it up and move on with life and if he's really not happy with his current team and school, perhaps he just leaves.  but that same kid isn't going to be able to switch over to St. Joes for his 5th year.

i get what you are saying about lasan's skillset and the flex and i agree he's not a natural fit.  but i believe he is talented enough and smart enough to figure out how to succeed in ml's system and thus make himself invaluable.

Thinker, EVERY school recruits over the players they have IF they can get a better player. There is not one coach in America who will turn down the opportunity to get a better player.  It's a tough world out there and these kids need to know there is competition every day for playing time and a spot on the roster. There are plenty of recruiting mistakes made - not every player pans out the way they were envisioned to. Plus, loyalty won't keep the coach from getting fired in the end. Players always have the ability to transfer if they think their situation is not good. I'm not saying it's the moral thing to do but that's the environment every DI coach operates in.

I'm not saying ML is a bad guy and I'm not saying that it's a bad thing for the school if their coach recruits over kids.  But all coaches don't do it either.  That a school wouldn't turn down a better player is a different thing than the school going out and purposefully going out of it's way to focus on and  recruit a player who would overlap an existing player.  There are generally too limited of recruiting resources at most schools to go after players at positions that are "over."  Be clear, I've also never said that ML is recruiting over anyone.  What I've said is that if GW gets another commit from a guard in the next month, I'd find it very unlikely that we'd go into 2013 with 7 guards because I don't think all those guys would still come or stay as it were.

From what I have learned over time, this is how most schools recruit:

The chart that GWAlumn2001 posted above is partly what most coaches have in their offices somewhere.  The other part is to line up the scholarships and the years with the positions. It's going to look more like this (This is just for demonstration purposes):

This is what most coaches do.  They look at their chart and say - "we're going to need a PF and a C in 2014."  Then they start making a list of players at those positions to get an early look at in 2012.  Into the 2012 season the staff will then decide on who their priority recruits at PF and C for 2014 will be.  They might start with 5-7 players at each spot while still prioritizng within those 5-7.  The top priority players will get offers in their sophmore years and every target will generally get an offer relatively early in their junior year.   Along the way, the staff will also be on the alert for late bloomers or guys that have been off the radar to add to the list as the recruiting season evolves.  But usually they stay focused on the guys they identified early.

The more effective and stable the coaching staff is and the team is, the further into the future the school can recruit.  When you read a lot of interviews with recruits you will see that it's really important to a lot of kids that your school was on to them EARLY.  So for a school to have the best chance at getting a player they have to be really on to him EARLY.  And you can only be REALLY on to a guy EARLY for a limited number of players. One way that you could judge the poor recruiting of Hobbs was that there were a number of ocassions that I'm aware of that Hobbs was still looking at new players AFTER their HS senior year had ended in the Spring for scholarships for that same Fall. 

I can say with 99% certainty that ML and his assistants would have spent the vast majority of their first weeks on the job trying to identify who their targets would be for the next two years, but particularly the next year when their targets would be HS seniors.  By early into last BB season, the staff would have been very onto Griffin and Johnson.  And while the staff still has work to do for the 2013 class, plenty of attention is already being paid to 2014 or the class of rising juniors. If this staff stays together and coninues it's recruiting success they will increasingly focus more and more on HS sophmores.  Again, because that's what good successful programs do.

Why do I explain all of this in this context? Because when you know how long term recruiting works, you know that recruiting over kids generally or mostly only happens by intentional design.  AGAIN, I'm not saying that ML is recruiting over anyone.  He may very well want a roster that is more heavily weighted on guards than forwards and centers. But I would also expect that the staff is very aware of the fact Pellom and Smith graduate this year and Armwood and Mikic the next year.  Obviously things get continuously updated - So if the staff decides that one of the current freshman just isn't as good as they hoped, or is disruptive to the team, or looks like they can't handle the school work or just is really unhappy - whatever - then they can decide to up their recruiting for THAT position.  In Hobbs' last year, he started recruiting more players in December when it appeared that he had no scholarships to give.  He knew several guys wouldn't be back. 

Obviously the staff knows what the deal is with their players and could be recruiting for positions that WE don't know will be available.

You get the best players you can when you can, period.  You don't worry about what other players, current or incoming,  are going to feel or think. If a player is unhappy and transfer, then you cross that bridge if that issue presents itself- but it's better to have that situation play out rather than not offer and try to recruit the student-athlete you can.  

And again,  players will and do transfer- at UVM 9 scholarship players transferred out in ML's 7 seasons.  Starters, conference award winners, to role players.  

Next guy in.  

Castro,

You don't get the point of my last post.  Coaches don't just go out there and recruit the best players they can get.  This isn't the NFL draft where you draft best player available. Schools have to plan WAY into the future who they are going to recruit and focus on and they have have to focus on specific needs at specific positions. Also coaches rely on the good will of HS coaches to recruit their players - if they consistently recruit over and screw over players, kids don't want to go to that school and HS and AAU programs will discourage kids from going there.

But great point that ML had kids transfer out at Vermont. 

Travis king to umbc

Johnny Lee to Lipscomb

Thinker, I totally get it.  I completely understand what you are saying.  But in your last post, you basically argued my point when you wrote: 

"AGAIN, I'm not saying that ML is recruiting over anyone"

That was my whole point.  We have no idea what it going on or what the coaches are are thinkng or if someone is really being overrecruited. 

There are few teams besides Duke that recuit bench players to be bench players. Teams are made uo of 13 players and when 12 guys are verballed, there could be questions about the last guy no matter what. Just look at our team - we offer a guard, and people cry 'recruiting over' (not you, but that seems to be the discussion).  If we recruited a wing you could say that about Garino or Mikic.  If we recruit a big, you could say it about Paris or Kevin.  But the truth is we have no idea how things will play out or what the coaches think, nor do we know if it'll all work out well for everyone like it usually does (see Loyd, John).

But since we both agree that ML is not recruiting over anyway, then I have no idea what the point of the discussion is. .

 Thinker- my last post I made I took into account some common sense that would be applied to it.  Of course recruiting is not to just bring in the best talent- but it's also positional, filling needs, making sure there is balance for pending graduation.  A Head Coach isn't going to recruiti 10 guards because they are 10 great guards- that's just common sense.

In terms of underclassmen guards, GW has Savage, McDonald, and Nigel Johnson and Nick Griffin signed.  That's only  4 guards. Two of those kids will start, and two will come off the bench- that's just how this great game of college basketball works.  If Savage, McDonald, Griffin, and Johnson all think they are starting and playing 30 minutes a game then that's just not reality.  They should have the mindset they will but prepared when that isn't the case, because one of them might, but not all of them.  Lonergan likes a deep bench and would love to go 12 deep if he could- so they will play.  

Adding in Castro, or another guard doesn't even have to be Castro, will give you 5 guards.  Garino is a swingman who can probably play the 3 or 2.  So  even iif you want to  count him that's 6.  6 guards on a 13 person roster, that looks right to me.  

My over arching point, which it has always been- is if GW feels they can add another impact guard, be it Castro or Severe- they do it, because both of those kids are really good.  If coaches weren't always looking to add talent and instead were looking to make everyone happy, they wouldn't be coaching and would have a new line of work very quickly.  

Free Quebec gets it.  

 *Or 3 guards could start if GW goes with a 3 guard offense, but sign me up for being skeptical on that.  Would be a complete 180 from what ML has done in the past.  

CBO and Thinker - ML will absolutely recruit a player who will improve his team whether that means overrecruiting a position or not. If, for example, he can bring in a PG that he thinks is better than any PG he currently has versus bringing in a post that is equal/not better than he currently has - he is going to bring in that guard everytime unless he absolutely has no post players and needs one. Right now, with 13 scholarships he has the luxury to go with another guard should he so choose. When you are a team trying to improve you try to get the best players you can and let the court sort them out. And FQ, Duke has no relevance to GW in this regard (not saying you said that). But when you can recruit McDonald's AA's at positions it is very hard to overrecruit in that it is hard to find "better" players unless someone is a complete bust.. That is vastly different than GW who doesn't get McDonalds AA's so the opportunities to find better players as the program rises should be plentiful.

I hope ML is overrecruiting his ass off. That's how he will improve the program. The idea that he screws a kid he recruits over and burns bridges with AAU/HS coaches is a fairy tale. If that were the case most college coaches would be on the outs with virtually every AAU/HS program in America. The AAU/HS coaches know it's always about their kids and maximizing each kid's current opportunities and just because one kid didn't get playing time doesn't mean the next won't. They are not going to punish GW if they have another kid who fits well at GW. The only time that happens is if the coach does something else besides limit playing time like run a kid off scholarship. Most coaches worth their salt know that this a highly competitive environment and players rise and fall based on their ability to make the jump to the college level. It's not personal, it's competition.

ML is not recruiting over anybody.  The term recruiting over is just silly.  Players at the college level have to realize that the coach is going to bring anybody he thinks will help this team win. 

What I don't like is when coaches tell kids that I am only recruiting 1 PG this year and than the next week he is recruiting another PG (not implying that ML did this).  I assumed Castro was off the table when Nigel committed.  Will ML split the PG minutes 3 ways, not likely.   I get the idea that these kids may get good minutes, but if all 3 want the ball in their hands...it's an issue.  Maybe Nigel and Castro would both be satisfied with that scenario, but this is a big MAYBE.  If your heart was set on playing PG, why would you go to a school that had a starting sophomore?  IMO, Castro is not better than McDonald or Johnson.

I think the committing of Nigel has indeed caused Castro and his parents to be hesitant, which is very understandable.  As hard as GW has gone after him, why won't he commit?  I think he might have already completed all his officials planned (Butler, Duquesne, URI, GW),  Don't know about a possible 5th? 

If Castro does commit, which would be great, but will Nigel sign in November? 

To complicate things even futher, our big recruiting push in 2014 seems to be at PG where we are going after a few national recruits:  Kevin Zabo, Phil Booth, Jafar Kinsey, Byron Hawkins, Dwayne Williams, Evan Taylor and a few others.  We even have a few 2015 PGs on the radar.  Seems like you can never have enough PGs for the flex offense.

 I think a player to watch develop this year will be Paris.  If the team is loading up with guards this recruiting season, and Pellom is graduating, who are the key guys down low in 2013? There is Larsen and Armwood.  If Kopriva can bulk up perhaps he will earn some more minutes.  But I think it puts more pressure on developing Paris as a third key player in the paint.  They can develop him slowly this year, assuming Pellom is healthy and ready to go, but the team may really need to count on him in 2013.

I think if Castro commits to GW, I believe ML and crew are willing to roll the dice with Nigel but firmly believe he will stick to his commitment notwithstanding Castro. If Castro doesn't commit this is all moot.

 Do we have any evidence the staff has been in contact with Castro since Nigel committed? What makes everyone think this wasn't an either/or situation? We got Nigel and we're movin on to the next positional need ...

What's the likelihood of Jon Loyd transferring to Foggy Bottom? Are we holding a place for him?

Would be interesting to know what the coaching staff and the recruits think of all this message board reasoning and speculation. Seems to be a whole lot of presumptions being made without any real knowledge of what's actually happening on either side. Suppose that's the nature of a message board, especially in the off-season, but it becomes increasingly difficult to separate wheat from chaff.

CPots,

Yours is a very sensible point. 

Poog, as always, the voice of reason.  

More succinct and eloquent than my lengthy comments which all boil to the same thing: we don't know squat.

 I doubt that the staff is even thinking much about castro anymore. All of the chatter has been butler since they offered.

there were a couple of posts shortly after nigel committed that implied castro was still in the mix.  whether this was speculation or based on some insider tips i have no idea.  all i know is that for 12 at least we are well stocked underneath and one more guard would not screw the pooch.  now if that were to happen, i would be surprised if we continued to pursue pg's for '14.

 Both Castro and Severe are still mentioning GW after the Johnson commit, which could mean something or nothing.

CPots,

Are you suggesting that 109 posts might have been a waste of everyone's time and Castro might not actually be comming to GW?  That's just crazy.

 People need to get a clue!  Bynes graduates so next year Rene will be one of 7 guards playing the 1,2 and 3 positions.  There will be 6 scholarship players competing for time at the 4 & 5 positions.  There will also be a 6'7 recruited walkon that is a face up 4 man.  That is how college hoops works.  Nigel and Rene are different players and both will play- a lot!  Joe McDonald will play a lot.  I hope GW recruits and their parents don't read these crazy posts!   Dont you think Butler has 6-8 guards on their roster?  Of course!  We as GW fans should be begging Castro to come!  The truth is that most people on message boards aren't really fans but people with hidden agendas.  Remember the agent writing that TT was being sought after by numerous NBA teams?  Don't believe half of what you read here.  Support our school and team!   Encourage Rene to come to GW and help put GW Basketball back on map.  Most of Lonergan's teams have played 3 guard lineups.  Last year he didn't have enough quality guards.  That will not happen again.  If Rene commits I expect Lonergan to bring in 2 post players from class of 2014.  Someone will have to replace Isaiah.    Go Colonials!

Sure hope Lonergan, Turner, Strickland, and Sutton read this site so they'll know what to do on the recruiting front.

I think we have a great website here filled with Dreamers, Realists, Suffers and Wet Blankets.  And I think you need them all to make an entertaining,engaging and committed interest in our beloved GW Hoops.   

 I just hope the site survives because it's such a flash-in-the-pan right now.

Agree an MV/LFO 100% with anonymous Poster above. C'mon Castro just say GW!

I don't know why anyone would be mad this is just how recruiting goes sometimes. Many coaches hope their targets play poorly in July for the same reason.  Higher level programs have the ability to swoop in. It's just the reality of it

herve, if this thing dies, we had better alert Mario to get ready!

 @HoopDreamsmag: Received a text from 2013 Worcester Academy PG Rene Castro, Final List:  Duquense George Washington Boston University  Butler #HoopDreamsMag

Posters on the Butler board are pretty confident. Hadn't heard him mention Boston U before.

We are seriously in the mix for Castro. It will come down to Butler and us. Boston U. is not seriously in the mix and I believe Duquesne is no. 3. This confirms that ML will take another guard for those who doubted this a week or so ago.

Pretty confident is right. Do they know something we don't?

 But wait, 2 A10 teams, a former Horizon league team and an America East team?  Pass, not Big East talent

Sure no-name.  If a school that's been to 2 NCAA championship games in the last three years (and has, what 2 or 3 NBA players right now) wants him, then he can't be good unless some low-level Big East school is one of the finalists.

 Yeah, it looks like it's either going to be Butler or GW.

PG Graham Woodward just committed to Penn State, so Butler could make a big push for Castro. Plus his AAU teammate Andrew Chrabacsz is committed to Butler. 

That said, seems like GW has been recruiting him longer and harder.

Guilty as charged.  Sorry.

 Butler was never seriously on Graham Woodward, they only saw one of his open gyms that is it.

Its been clear they were going to add Rene Castro for a long time.

Hes committing this weekend

 Butler's 2013 class will be

PG Rene Castro - Rivals 142 (BABC)

PF Andrew Chrabascz - Rivals 3-star (BABC)

C Nolan Berry - Rivals 124 (St Louis Eagles)

Any you say this based on??

Not saying your wrong, just want to know where this info is coming from, or if its just a hunch.

Well hopefully he hasnt made up his mind and takes acception to how certain Butler Fans are.

Maybe the program is impressive but DC and GW certainly wins over Indi. I've been there!

The Castro thread on their board makes me feel like I'm reading a Kentucky message board. I would LOVE for them to get knocked around in-conference this year so they understand there are other teams on the A-10 besides Temple and Xavier.

The Miami Herald is reporting that Castro is having medical problems so maybe his picking Butler is not such a bad thing for GW.

 Never a bad thing to agree with jr22. No question Butler thinks they're coming in and gonna dominate at top of A-10 as Xavier has pretty much done since their arrival. Hoping they get a big come uppance

Doesn't look like he committed during his Butler visit.  Still alive.

 I wonder if the Butler fans jumped the gun a bit.. Maybe a bit too cocky :)  

Definitely some backtracking on their board. Not to say he doesnt go there but they arent as confident as earlier in the week. GW has plenty to offer a Boston area kid like him. Lets hope he decides to join us.

 Here is quote from the Butler message board that summarizes the type of attitude on there. I'm quickly beginning to dislike Butler fans. Apparently we are "figuratively no one"

I just suggest that you google maps Butler... check it out.   

 OK what was I supposed to see?

Just to clear. I'm not saying he shouldnt or wont go to Butler, its just that it may not be all that automatic as Butler fans believed a few days ago.  GW is not such a bad spot and the program is not as far behind Butler as many think. We of all people know how quickly a program can fall f. So beware Butler fans before you get too much ahead of yourselves.

All this suspense is about to give me another heart attack.

Please let me know when we are at 200 posts on this thread, LSF.

 FC, street view. it's like they just dropped a New Jersey Tech in the middle of Greenbelt or Takoma Park... or College Park. From what you can see from this side of the shrubs, it is a low, brick uninteresting campus. on street in need of repair in the middle of fucking nowhere, unless you think that Indianapolis is somewhere.

Ha... what are you looking at on Google maps??  Butler has a great residential campus; and the only brick is on the fraternity and sorrority houses, and Hinkle Fieldhouse complex... The campus is a plus for us, if anything!  

And Indy vs. DC?  Sure, very contrasting cities; but I'll take our chances with Indy...  I remember my trip to DC back in High School.  The stench of all the homeless around the city is unforgetable.

This should be interesting, you may have an advantage in the area of geographical proximity to his home town, but  Butler's basketball program, and Coach Stevens should easily trump that.

Looking forward to winning this battle, and years of giving you fits in A10 play.

"The stench of all the homeless around the city is unforgetable."

Classy.

That's funny because I remember back to my high school trip to Indianapolis.....wait, not high school outside the greater Indianapolis area EVER intentionally traveled to "Indy".  Never, not for any reason besides maybe a layover on a trip to Chicago, NYC or DC. 

Butler will compete because of their coach and their facilities but "Naptown" will always be a drawback.  That goes for the Dawgs, the Colts, the Pacers or any Indianapolis business hoping to recruit talent.

 DC is one of the most iconic cities in the world. Truly a cultural mecca who's only rival for international importance in the US in New York City.

Indianapolis or anywhere in Indiana for that matter is not in the same stratosphere. Butler has a nicer gym then GWU, better recent history and a bigger basketball name. GWU is a SIGNIFICANTLY better school, in an unbeatable location with a new 50 million dollar arena. 

I think Butler fans will soon realize they're not playing Valparaiso every other game. 

Bobo, noooooo!!  (anyone with kids under 4 would appreciate that...)

This is great, a DC vs. Indy fight!  Just wondering when you last visited Indy?  (Its changed just a little... )  We're not DC, and not trying to be - Indy has a charm of its own, that offers plenty of opportunity for our students that are well regarded in the community and beyond.  The focus on academics during our F4 runs helped reinforce this even further.

Regardless, I'm glad this decision will be focused mostly on the basketball programs involved, including coaches, basketball facilities, prestiege, and success...  I'm not to concerned with what GW has to offer in that regard!

Good luck to  you, I'm sure your program needs Castro's services even more than Butler.  Although, I think he know he has a golden opportunity to contribute and WIN right away at Butler!

As a native Hoosier from The Region, I feel no animosity toward Butler or the obviously transformed Naptown in which it is located. Butler's recent successes and Coach Stevens are obvious pluses for them. GW's location on the East Coast, particularly in D.C., works to the school's advantage in recruiting. While we have faith and confidence in Coach Lonergan and his coaching staff, hard to say objectively that that gives us any advantage other than the early time and effort we believe has been put into Castro's recruitment. Fortunately, recruiting is not about tangibles and intangibles cited by interested but uninvolved fans. Certainly, Castro and others will make up their own minds without regard to any incipient flame war brewing between fans of schools unlikely to ever see each other's campus. But it's always nice to have a new team to dislike. After all, Temple's leaving.

As a long time Butler fan I want to apologize for some of the comments on the Butler basketball board.  I also want you to know that 99$ of Butler fans respect all the A10 opponents Butler will face.  These are the ones that do not post on message boards.  Beleive me alot of Butler fans get tired of Title's arrogant attitude.  I have not posted on a message board very often but do like to keep up with the information.  It is hard to find much Butler info. in Indy as everything is pro IU.  Purdue gets the shaft in Indy too.  I have been a fan long enough to remember when Butler was struggling big time in basketball.  That is why I have appreciated the the last 15 years of so of Butler basketball so much.  The younger Butler fan has only seen Butler win and just thinks the program is so much better than most of the other non BCS schools.  I think some of that thinking comes from the attitued that alot of the IU fans have in regards to Butler.  IU fans can't believe if a recruit picks Butler over IU.  It doesn't happen very often but when it does it makes big news around here.  Please don't take this wrong, but in all honesty if you were looking at just basketball success over the last 10 years  Castro would pick Butler over GW, Duquesne and Boston University and that is the eay these type of fans think..  I know there is much more to a decision than that for a kid.  I am sure GW would offer a kid many grreat things as a university and student athlete.  I am very excited that Butler is part of the A10.  I hope you will visit Hinkle Fieldhouse very soon and I think you will have a different oppinion of Butler fans.  They will respect your team and university.  Who knows Castro may even be playing in the game for one of the teams.  Thanks for giving me time on your message board.

An estimated 18,500 people are homeless in Washington, D.C. (population 617,996) over the course of a year. In Indianapolis (population 827,609) as many as 15,000 individuals are homeless over the course of a year.

Back to recruiting... Remember all the guards we have recruited lately (McDonalnd etc...) . Hopefully he's a confident guy and decides not to let that effect his decision.. Now I'll Shut The FU and wait for a 18yr to make or break my week  (Well not completely)  LOL

I am certain that both Butler and GW offer every one of their recruits positive things.  As a GW fan, I recognize many of the positives GW has to offer their recruits.  They can offer them a home in Washington, D.C., a campus in the heart of a city, a meal plan that includes options to go shopping at whole foods, a night life without having to travel far, a good coaching staff, significant playing time, and being a part of a program that is building its way back up.  I'm certain that Butler, its campus, and its basketball program  have plenty to offer their recruits.  They have final four runs, they have a very talented coach.  I have never been to Indianapolis or to Butler's campus, so I can't really speak to them...but I'm certain there are perks too.

These kids are in a fortunate position to be recruited by several schools--each will offer benefits, and there will be tradeoffs for them all as well.  Good luck to Castro making whatever decision he decides is best for him.  Here's hoping he decides it is GW!

HA HA HA!!!!!

I am so glad that I can piss people off. Life is like a box of Chocolates....

Of course, anyone who would look at the DC population and compare INDY to DC, has their head up their own ass. Indi MSA is 35 or 36... about the size of VA Beach. The DC area is 7 in the nation before you consider that it is part of the MMSA which includes Baltimore and Naptown.

Just for you number nerds, that puts us in the Dallas/Ft Worth -- Chicago range. Of course, we approach LA, but then, you are talking about continuous urban sprawl, Come to think of it, that's a lot like the DC spread. Consider that there is suburbs about 30-40 miles down the interstate towards Richmond... which reaches 20 miles towards us.

Basically, anyone who knows anything about the numbers would laugh LAUGH at any comparisons. Although, I like the fact that Butler has joined the A10.

The Washington DC metro retion has also been recently rated as both the richest city in the US and the most highly educated...not a bad combo.

That being said, I appreciate Butler 86's well written reply.  Butler is obvsously a very welcome addition to the A10 and should continue to have RPI and post season success, they just won't be able to dominate the league like they did the Horizon.  I've only been to Indy once (briefly) but found it pleasant.  I've been to towns like Dayton more often and found it to be an open pit (sorry herve).  Still Dayton's been able to steal away GW recruits so I'm sure Butler will do the same on occasion.

Who cares about demographics or location? Castro just needs to say yes to GW.

 @ CBO

Best comment I've read on this thread in a while.

Q: Who care about demographics or location?

A: Rene Castro, when deciding where to spend the next 4 years of his life.

Score:

Jr22   1

CBO  0

jr22 is right and that's why I responded to the question raised as to why Butler didn't get an immediate response (of course, it was a joke... I would probably make the decision at home with family, anyway). Some guys just want something different. Butler may be perfect or not. I echo the point that the schools are different in appeal. Butler has a great iconic fieldhouse... it is fantastic to have the gym in the A10. You had better believe that it will be mentioned by the other schools in the A10 as they recruit their players. Plus, you don't have to defend Butler players, fans or coaches here. That, btw is the same with VCU.

The arrogance of one particular "fan" on our board who certainly doesn't speak for the majority, I can guarantee you that everyone connected with the Butler program knows just how much a step up in competition the A10 is going to be over the Horizon. Trust me, Butler lost plenty to the Youngstown States of the world and this team is still really young, albeit talented. Thanks to Rotnei Clarke, this season will be a competitive one for us, but we'll have a drop off next season for sure.

I think the desperation you see on the Butler board has more to do with the departure of Chrishawn Hopkins and the huge hole that he leaves, particular at PG starting next year. Also, there seems to be a split opinion on the merit of Stevens' recruiting ability. But one thing is not debatable and that's his coaching skill and he will Butler ready to play game in and game out.

It's going to be a great season (the first of many) and I know that I probably speak for more of Butler's fans that some others when I say that we respect our opponents and know that we're going to have a tough season, both in-conference and out of conference.

Good luck with Castro and hopefully, we'll learn soon which way it goes.

Jr22 that wasn't my point. My real point was all the back and forth on Washington v. Indianapolis here is ridiculous and doesn't serve anybody well. I can assure you that Rene's not caught up in this nonsense and will make the best choice for him based on a wide-range of factors. If you don't believe that I might have some inside knowledge go back up to the top of the thread and see who posted first and read the remainder of my posts here.

CBO, let's get all pc. OH... I'm sorry. You don't have an effing idea, do you? Do you have any kids that are, say, 18?  

Dolphin - you can believe me if you want or not but bashing Washington or Indianapolis isn't helping right now. I have much more of an effing idea on this than you do.

Calm down friend! We both want the same thing...to land Castro.  I didnt see anyone claim you werent an "insider." Frankly, I'm impressed that you are so "inside" that you know a recruit's inner-most thoughts and are certain that they in no way relate to the location of the school. Whats the point of discussing this at all anymore. You've already taken away the suspense with your inside knowledge.

Seriously though, since you brought it up, I dont see anything from you that shows and sort of insider information. What exactly was I supposed to be looking for?

"Castro just needs to say yes to GW."  Oh, there it is! Damn, you must be big time to have access to a scoop like that.

GW has so much more to offer than Butler for basketball players.  i agree it's an easy choice. so how come Butler gets the better players makes the final 4 and we struggle to make it to the A10 tournament?apparently location doesn't mean as much as the basketball program.  perhaps in the past it was KH's fault and ML will turn it around.

I'm with CBO- no need to bash another school or city.  Our school should speak for itself, and I hope Castro (and other recruits) choose to spend their 4 years of college here.  

CBO- with your inside info, what's the scoop?

jr22 - just smh ... if you only knew my man.

I'm SMH'ing(sp?) as well CBO. Trust me

Castro on verge of decision

link

Truth be told, I started college in Eugene, Oregon. It is hardly as sophisticated a place as living in the hear of Washington, D.C., but it was fun to be a college student there. The point is, Indy has many things DC does not, like an NBA team people care about and that has a scouting staff, a media that pays attention to college hoops (and not just after the local NFL obsession is out of the running), and people who go to games instead of the myriad of other things Washingtonians do with their lives. Then again, the crab cakes are better in DC...

 Rene Castro down to 2 schools.   No longer 4. At this time, one could speculate that GW is one of those teams.   One could ;). Hehe 

 Where did u get the down to 2 info?

 Where did u get the down to 2 info?

 Where did u get the down to 2 info?

 Where did u get the down to 2 info?

 Where did u get the down to 2 info?

 Where did u get the down to 2 info?

 Where did u get the down to 2 info?

 sorry guys. not sure how that happened

 @FC-  call it a hunch.  ;) 

why would he want to come to dc since its such an unhip place? 

 Butler and Duquense are left.

 If that is true that sucks.  But GW will just have to move on.  Severe is still out there.  180 posts dedicated to this recruit.  I would imagine the record for the longest thread belongs to Copes.  But still...

I'm not surprised, given the two freshmen guards we have now and the two guard commits we have for next year.

Butler and GW are left.

well now im just completely lost. If you cant trust someone name "YOLO," who can you trust???

 Other reports from today say it's still 3 with GW, Butler and Duquesne.

For those of you who want to tune-in from home and think this link might provide info:

https://twitter.com/Rcastro24

i need a decoder ring to figure out what the h**** they are talking about on that twitter feed.  Crazy kidz... 

 Butler thread calls it down to 2 - BU and Duquesne.   "Title"-- a board moniker similar to that of our "The MV",  seems to forget his Tem is headed to the A-10 where But,Eric will lose their fair share of games now to the Colonials, Rams and Dukies.  He attacks their current coaching, sound familiar? And he arrogantly contends that if anyone lands Castro over BU it's a disaster and all Stevens fault.  Lmfao.  He's funny. I'm gonna like rubbing in every A-10 loss they get. Just like UNCC. They came in- pained to be the best and then proceeded to get shelled and then fire their shoeless coach. 

Yesterday- actually two days ago- I contended Castro was down to 2. I then said, one could speculate that one of those teams was GW.  Call it a hunch.  This is still the case. He is down to 2 teams and it's still a hunch.   However- today, a butler fan with limited posts chimes in its down to 2 and not GW.  I don't recognize the poster nor he didnt post a link etc. 

there is NO word of his team choice or if he even MADE a choice yet.  GW has NOT officially been eliminated.  When and if they are, we have a quality alternative route.  The arrogance of a few leads to the disdain of many. 

Think reports of it being narrowed to two are premature. 

 @DEA- I guarantee you that the report on the BU board is bullshit.  That is all. You can read it for yourself.  Herve supplied the link and just skip to last page. It appears they are looking at twitter and someone makes an assumption it's down to two ---leaving out GW without any link.  So it must be real :) 

besides, I have a friend, who has a friend, whose sister has a friend that's dating a guy who used to play AAU ball with Castro.  and Castro told him GW is not out of it yet!  Lmfao. 

Again- were actively recruiting another kid and I'm certain that you can agree why we are doing that DEA. If you still have the same connects 

 committed to Butler

 Castro commits to Butler.  It wasn't their first choice butadiene they let out on two other guards- they leveraged Castro's AAU buddy and voila.  Thankfully- we knew this and we are still actively recruiting.   I had one fun on the Butler board- they sound like a mix of Charlotte fans and Xavier fans.  I'm still laughing that some tool called GW a substandard basketball program. I can't wait to do a recap of one of their threads for all to enjoy.  I think they're so used to the shitty horizon- they just assume its a lateral move to the A-10. All but 4 posters so far who are very cordial and reasonable. It was a fun exercise proving that the biggest instigator there wouldn't even bet his team would end better than .500 in A-10.  At least we are gentlemen over here.  I wouldn't know what to do without the bottle I get from Herve every year ;)   

 "I'm still laughing that some tool called GW a substandard basketball program"

2011 (10-21)

2010 (17-14)

2009 (16-14)

2008 (10-18)

2007 (9-17)

Yup, totally outrageous to say you guys are substandard. Meanwhile Butler has gone to the NCAA tourney from 2007-2011 including 2 final 4 appearances.  Can't wait to play you guys

 "I'm still laughing that some tool called GW a substandard basketball program"

2011 (10-21)

2010 (17-14)

2009 (16-14)

2008 (10-18)

2007 (9-17)

Yup, totally outrageous to say you guys are substandard. Meanwhile Butler has gone to the NCAA tourney from 2007-2011 including 2 final 4 appearances.  Can't wait to play you guys

 "I'm still laughing that some tool called GW a substandard basketball program"

2011 (10-21)

2010 (17-14)

2009 (16-14)

2008 (10-18)

2007 (9-17)

Yup, totally outrageous to say you guys are substandard. Meanwhile Butler has gone to the NCAA tourney from 2007-2011 including 2 final 4 appearances.  Can't wait to play you guys

 Thank you for your intellectual input Butler Student. It's a blessing students like you - who ignorantly take a small 5 year sampling of a program - in order o prove absolutely nothing.  You will soon learn, the past results are not indicative of future returns.  Good luck to u as well.  My dear friend 

Butler has been to the tournament 11 times total. Prior to 2000, they hadn't won a tourney game since 1962 and went 35 years between NCAA tournament appearances after 1962. But that's just history and facts and who needs that.

 I'm sure those basketball records will really help "Butler Student" in this job market. 

 Well Guy, there are seven Golden Corral's in the Indy metro area so....

Hope Rene Castro knows not to follow "Butler Student's" path and major in being an substandard ass.

and with this news, Jon Loyd breathes a sigh of relief.

200 posts down the drain!

Hard to argue with Butler's recent NCAA success, and that is beyond the Horizon League.  Up until now, I thought it was pretty cool that Stevens stayed at Butler.  Now I hope they do poorly in the A-10, and he takes the next ticket out to a truly better opportunity.

herve, that Golden Corral potshot was unnecessary.  One of my good friends is a Butler alum '06 and he just moved to Rochester, NY and is applying for some bartending jobs there.

 I think the implication is that Butler is an awful school so they can take Rene Castro while we'll take our signifcantly better jobs. 

Been away for awhile. Who is Rene Castro??? Nothing to us I think. Couldn't get past the admission committee.

Funny that Castro and his HS coach cited academics as a deciding factor... Boom.

With Rene's longtime desire to pursue a career in animal husbandry, Butler academics makes perfect sense.

 Speaking about one who got away, wonder how Trey Davis will do at Umass this year.  If KH's last several years of recruiting are any indication...

 Very good, bobo.

 Academics are "always the deciding factor." There is no comparison academically between Butler and GW and considering Castro is from the northeast, it's clear this was a basketball decision only. No hard feelings, with him and the Bulldogs the best. 

Guys. maybe this is a very good sign. Perhaps Castro looked around at McDonald, Savage, Garino, (the underrated) Nigel Johnson and said much as I love GW and the coaches, i can't compete with all that talent,.

He didn't choose us.  We're disappointed, sure.  But don't trash Butler or him for not choosing GW.  Some of you are starting to sound a little too aristocratic with the whole "we're academically better" thing.  A program that has won as much as Butler recently is absolutely attractive - and don't expect an 18 year old to understand what we feel is a better program at GW because of our runs in the 90's and the Pops era....that is something only a GW alum would care about.  Hopefully ML can turn in a few more solid recruits, start putting 18-20 wins on the board each year, and then all of a sudden we will be relevant nationally again and we'll start scoring top 100-150 talent more consistently. 

Thank you JP. Much needed.

Remember: they are all just kids  and we should wish them all the best (unfortunately, adults often coerce/make the decisions for them) . But "academics as a deciding factor"?

Just the facts, jack:

(And, of course, academics and college sports is a whole 'nother topic.)

U.S. News Ranking

Butler: Score 96; Fall 2011 acceptance rate 60.9%

GW: Score 61; Fall 2011 acceptance rate 33.0%; High school counselor score (out of 5) 4.2

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/butler-university-1788/rankings#

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/george-washington-university-1444/rankings

Whole 'nother topic
10/29/2012 12:30:06 AM
Poster: Pied Piper

Remember: they are all just kids  and we should wish them all the best (unfortunately, adults often coerce/make the decisions for them) . But "academics as a deciding factor"?

Just the facts, jack:

(And, of course, academics and college sports is a whole 'nother topic.)

U.S. News Ranking

Butler: Score 96; Fall 2011 acceptance rate 60.9%

GW: Score 61; Fall 2011 acceptance rate 33.0%; High school counselor score (out of 5) 4.2

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/butler-university-1788/rankings#

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/george-washington-university-1444/rankings

I agree 100% with JP and Poog. A kid we want doesn't become a kid we don't want, just because he doesn't want us. Occasionally, we ought to try to act like adult college graduates.

Otherwise, more confirmation:

http://www.rantsports.com/ncaa-basketball/2012/10/29/2013-guard-rene-castro-pops-for-butler-and-brad-stevens/

Does Brad Stevens intentionally try to give us that young John Wooden look? 'Cause despite my comment above, I sure can tire quickly of too much sincerity.

Thank God this is over.  Can you imagine if this kid were to actually have read this entire thread?  The 5% chance he'd be flattered would have been offset by the 95% chance that he'd be repulsed.  Whether you're a grownup or a college student, putting down each other and fighting like little babies over which program is better or which city is better or which school is better is about as ridiculous as it gets.  GW fans, Castro chose a better program.  That mattered most to him and don't even begin to compare GW to Butler right now.  Butler fans, GW has enjoyed success in the past and the trajectory is pointing the right way with this year's recruiting class plus Isiah Armwood, a Villanova transfer, which it almost has to coming off of a 10 win season.  GW has beaten schools like Temple and Xavier in the past and winning a home game against Butler should not come as an absolute shock. 

No matter who you support, one thing is clear....stop sounding like fools by putting a high school senior in the middle of your petty commentary again.  For the player's sake.

Weird. It's almost like it's the "internet" and this is a "message board". Thank goodness there are people out there willing to police this strange technology beast for us.

THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!! 

Careful about the sarcasim, Tuna and herve or CastroCommentor will return to give you another proper scolding:

 I hope he does well at Butler and hopefully the education he gets there helps him out in life. I also look forward to GW beating him and Butler year in and year out for his entire college career.

 Its harmless...something to talk about until the season starts.

Sorry Castro didn't choose GW but he made the best decision for him. As a GW fan disappointed ... as a Castro fan thrilled he was able to choose between schools like Butler and GW and wish him all the best.

He's got some recruitable, big men, teammates:

http://www.golocalworcester.com/sports/hoops-recruits-update-worcester-academy/

As a Philadelphia resident, I was able to see Darryl Reynolds on numerous occassions. Good player. May get a high major offer, but will be a good A-10 PF.

http://nehoopnews.com/news/1993/Worcester-Academys-Darryl-Reynolds-and-Matt-Cimino-recruiting-update.php