Board

Kromah to transfer
Replies: 140

5/21/2013 10:59:55 PM
Abe

gwhoops.com Digest - 5/21/2013
Replies: 0

5/21/2013 10:56:58 PM
herve

New Court Design
Replies: 32

5/21/2013 9:50:20 PM
rocket

Talk about bad p.r.
Replies: 4

5/21/2013 5:58:17 PM
GW Alum Abroad

Love it
Replies: 4

5/21/2013 5:52:46 PM
ELJ

OT: Tragedy in Potomac
Replies: 0

5/21/2013 4:19:18 PM
MOCO Observer

OT: Tragedy in Potomac
Replies: 0

5/21/2013 4:19:17 PM
MOCO Observer

Is today the last day
Replies: 1

5/21/2013 3:00:57 PM
GWSB '11

RECRUIT: CJ KEYSER
Replies: 3

5/21/2013 10:02:29 AM
BM

RECRUIT: MARTIN GEBEN
Replies: 38

5/21/2013 9:52:12 AM
Florida Colonial

RECRUIT: NANA FOULLAND
Replies: 1

5/21/2013 9:52:09 AM
BM

RECRUIT: MIKAL BRIDGES
Replies: 6

5/21/2013 9:48:11 AM
Florida Colonial

Who is on the team as of NOW?
Replies: 1

5/21/2013 9:30:54 AM
Old Prof

RECRUIT: JON DAVIS
Replies: 2

5/21/2013 12:57:02 AM
BM

Mikic graduates in 3 years (via @gw_mbb twitter)
Replies: 10

5/21/2013 12:55:13 AM
cagwu

gwhoops.com Digest - 5/20/2013
Replies: 0

5/20/2013 10:54:32 PM
herve

Official college football smack-talking thread
Replies: 587

5/20/2013 4:34:37 PM
GW Alum Abroad

David Pellom to Memphis
Replies: 44

5/20/2013 12:30:10 PM
donte

gwhoops.com Digest - 5/19/2013
Replies: 0

5/19/2013 10:51:29 PM
herve

RECRUIT: NICK GRIFFIN
Replies: 101

5/19/2013 10:11:43 PM
CPots

RECRUIT: BYRON HAWKINS
Replies: 11

5/19/2013 1:05:54 PM
herve

Oct 4, 2014
Replies: 7

5/19/2013 10:22:56 AM
Tuna Can

gwhoops.com Digest - 5/18/2013
Replies: 0

5/18/2013 10:51:22 PM
herve

Superstar added to Lonergan's facebook!
Replies: 3

5/18/2013 8:51:20 PM
Martiniboy

Why Next Year Is Pretty Darn Critical
Replies: 23

5/18/2013 6:04:37 PM
The MV

OT: Bo Jackson
Replies: 6

5/18/2013 5:41:01 PM
herve

RECRUIT: DEVIN ROBINSON
Replies: 6

5/18/2013 2:34:02 PM
BM

another possible transfer (immediately eligible)
Replies: 37

5/18/2013 12:33:07 PM
Florida Colonial

gwhoops.com Digest - 5/17/2013
Replies: 0

5/17/2013 10:51:22 PM
herve

OOC Schedule Thread
Replies: 14

5/17/2013 12:40:55 PM
BM

gwhoops.com Digest - 5/16/2013
Replies: 0

5/16/2013 10:51:36 PM
herve

Several GW Women Get Another Year to Play
Replies: 5

5/16/2013 5:22:16 PM
ziik

George makes some headlines
Replies: 2

5/16/2013 11:05:09 AM
BM

Big George trying to get into Captain America 2
Replies: 0

5/16/2013 11:03:59 AM
squid

SJT -- Not a Bad Guy at All
Replies: 48

5/16/2013 10:51:33 AM
Tuna Can

Quick Question: Outstanding Offers
Replies: 7

5/16/2013 10:19:58 AM
wax daddy

what we know so far
Replies: 5

5/16/2013 8:40:31 AM
formerly boston pops

gwhoops.com Digest - 5/15/2013
Replies: 0

5/15/2013 10:51:58 PM
herve

could they boot us out of barclays?
Replies: 5

5/15/2013 10:03:01 PM
tk

RECRUIT: ANTON WATERS
Replies: 4

5/15/2013 9:37:20 AM
BM

gwhoops.com Digest - 5/14/2013
Replies: 0

5/14/2013 10:51:35 PM
herve

RECRUIT: TYLER NELSON
Replies: 8

5/14/2013 9:18:04 PM
BM

RECRUIT: DOMINIQUE BULL
Replies: 80

5/14/2013 4:47:57 PM
BM

Who is Lionel Coleman
Replies: 1

5/14/2013 4:47:43 PM
Phil_Raw_

SJT and Left Coast
Replies: 0

5/14/2013 10:36:58 AM
kdb sand diego

gwhoops.com Digest - 5/13/2013
Replies: 0

5/13/2013 10:52:29 PM
herve

RECRUIT: SANDY COHEN
Replies: 34

5/13/2013 9:25:10 PM
Florida Colonial

RECRUIT: ANTHONY SWAN
Replies: 0

5/13/2013 4:51:10 PM
GCLY89

Rutgers Can't Catch a Break ...
Replies: 12

5/13/2013 4:41:57 PM
The Eagle Has Landed

RYAN MCCOY
Replies: 58

5/13/2013 4:16:10 PM
ATL Colonial

RECRUIT: RYAN LUTHER
Replies: 1

5/13/2013 2:17:37 PM
BM

for those of you looking for new digs....
Replies: 2

5/13/2013 12:59:03 PM
herve

RECRUIT: MIKE WILLIAMS
Replies: 7

5/13/2013 9:57:07 AM
BM

New Team
Replies: 0

5/13/2013 8:37:54 AM
Spotter

gwhoops.com Digest - 5/12/2013
Replies: 0

5/12/2013 10:51:35 PM
herve

Happy Mother's Day-Mrs. Tallent,
Replies: 2

5/12/2013 10:19:02 PM
ziik

UVA Transfer-Paul Jesperson
Replies: 16

5/12/2013 9:54:08 PM
bam

"RECRUITS" tab currently broken, but NOTHING has been lost. will fix ASAP. sorry. nt
Replies: 6

5/12/2013 7:34:40 PM
herve

It's Lonergan
Replies: 99

5/11/2013 11:44:39 PM


gwhoops.com Digest - 5/11/2013
Replies: 0

5/11/2013 10:51:36 PM
herve

GW about to Rope in another A10 Sport--Now back to your regularly scheduled angst
Replies: 17

5/11/2013 4:50:39 PM
Tuna Can

gwhoops.com Digest - 5/10/2013
Replies: 0

5/10/2013 10:51:32 PM
herve

RECRUIT: BONZIE COLSON
Replies: 8

5/10/2013 3:57:24 PM
BM

RECRUIT: ISIAH TRIPP
Replies: 5

5/10/2013 2:21:41 PM
BM

RECRUIT: JAMAL ROBINSON
Replies: 5

5/10/2013 8:43:41 AM
BM

gwhoops.com Digest - 5/9/2013
Replies: 0

5/9/2013 10:51:28 PM
herve

Ryan McCoy from Manhattan?
Replies: 0

5/9/2013 4:45:47 PM
Steven

Maurice Creek transferring from Indiana
Replies: 26

5/9/2013 4:15:39 PM
GCLY89

RECRUIT: ALSTON THOMPSON
Replies: 0

5/9/2013 10:16:06 AM
BM

RECRUIT: TRE CAMPBELL
Replies: 18

5/9/2013 9:02:37 AM
BM

Davidson to the A-10
Replies: 20

5/9/2013 6:17:07 AM
gonzo

gwhoops.com Digest - 5/8/2013
Replies: 0

5/8/2013 10:52:06 PM
herve

Lonergan In Lithuania
Replies: 52

5/8/2013 5:16:27 PM
Don't Quote Me

Does the name Marcus Joseph ring a bell?
Replies: 6

5/8/2013 12:29:26 AM
GW0811

gwhoops.com Digest - 5/7/2013
Replies: 0

5/7/2013 10:51:27 PM
herve

Another recruit lost
Replies: 3

5/7/2013 6:38:50 PM
Florida Colonial

Where Winners Migrate?
Replies: 0

5/7/2013 2:42:20 PM
Dootie Bubble

Another recruit lost
Replies: 6

5/7/2013 1:44:12 PM
Florida Colonial

Taking all the fun and mystery out of Herve's other passion...
Replies: 7

5/7/2013 1:27:37 PM
FLA

D-league action
Replies: 4

5/7/2013 1:00:27 PM
The MV

Kevin Larsen's military service
Replies: 9

5/7/2013 8:41:37 AM
GW0811

gwhoops.com Digest - 5/6/2013
Replies: 0

5/6/2013 10:52:14 PM
herve

RECRUIT: MAURICE CREEK
Replies: 13

5/6/2013 5:27:58 PM
BM

gwhoops.com Digest - 5/5/2013
Replies: 0

5/5/2013 10:52:15 PM
herve

I. Am. So. Shocked.
Replies: 1

5/5/2013 7:40:58 PM
herve

Travon Landry
Replies: 1

5/5/2013 6:29:00 PM
Tennessee Colonial

RECRUIT: JJ EPPS
Replies: 4

5/5/2013 7:56:04 AM
BM

Tweet About Larsen
Replies: 1

5/5/2013 7:15:27 AM
CT Colonial

gwhoops.com Digest - 5/4/2013
Replies: 0

5/4/2013 10:51:35 PM
herve

RECRUIT: JUSTIN EDWARDS
Replies: 9

5/4/2013 3:39:49 PM
BM

gwhoops.com Digest - 5/3/2013
Replies: 0

5/3/2013 10:52:01 PM
herve

Does Lonergan...???
Replies: 6

5/3/2013 7:58:13 PM
GDUB4

Not basketball, but let's help Georgetown
Replies: 28

5/3/2013 7:03:53 PM
squid

RECRUIT: JULIAN DEBOSE
Replies: 11

5/3/2013 5:49:47 PM
BM

Real Basketball Shit--BM's guard minute projections on a Creek signing and no others
Replies: 15

5/3/2013 2:11:40 PM
Tuna Can

RECRUIT: PAUL JORGENSEN
Replies: 9

5/3/2013 10:22:20 AM
Florida Colonial

gwhoops.com Digest - 5/2/2013
Replies: 0

5/2/2013 10:51:33 PM
herve

gwhoops.com Digest - 5/1/2013
Replies: 0

5/1/2013 10:51:34 PM
herve

Eli Carter gets his release from Rutgers
Replies: 9

5/1/2013 8:06:29 PM
DEA

RECRUIT: GABE LEVIN
Replies: 74

5/1/2013 6:43:28 PM
BM

Transfer list
Replies: 16

5/1/2013 3:33:59 PM
BM

GW Med School (OT)
Replies: 3

5/1/2013 1:04:46 PM
NJ Colonial

ML should stop off in Russia and pick up a new assistant
Replies: 0

5/1/2013 12:39:40 PM
george the hippo hunter

RECRUIT: ROBERT CARTWRIGHT
Replies: 2

5/1/2013 8:57:38 AM
mike K

Mark Schlabach
Replies: 1

5/1/2013 3:45:17 AM
Dootie Bubble

gwhoops.com Digest - 4/30/2013
Replies: 0

4/30/2013 10:51:25 PM
herve

RECRUIT: CHANCELLOR BARNARD
Replies: 2

4/30/2013 9:15:30 AM
BM

RECRUIT: LENNARD FREEMAN
Replies: 40

4/30/2013 7:36:37 AM
Mike K

Ms. Traynor-In her Own Words
Replies: 17

4/30/2013 4:48:51 AM
ziik

gwhoops.com Digest - 4/29/2013
Replies: 0

4/29/2013 10:52:55 PM
herve

RECRUIT: BRADY ELLINGSON
Replies: 2

4/29/2013 8:22:36 PM
Florida Colonial

Roster for next season on 4/26 (this thread is actually about the NY Jets)
Replies: 25

4/29/2013 4:05:24 PM
GDub4

gwhoops.com Digest - 4/28/2013
Replies: 0

4/28/2013 10:53:18 PM
herve

Men's Tennis Tied 3-3 in A-10 Finals
Replies: 2

4/28/2013 1:33:31 PM
the sons of liberty

gwhoops.com Digest - 4/27/2013
Replies: 0

4/27/2013 10:51:29 PM
herve

EYBL
Replies: 0

4/27/2013 11:29:07 AM
GW Fan

gwhoops.com Digest - 4/26/2013
Replies: 0

4/26/2013 10:51:35 PM
herve

International Assistant Coach
Replies: 4

4/26/2013 8:16:22 PM
LA Fan

"George Mason president delivers new vision" (WaPo)
Replies: 1

4/26/2013 5:05:15 PM
herve

RECRUIT: MARQUIS WRIGHT
Replies: 35

4/26/2013 2:20:19 PM
BM

RECRUIT: MIGUEL CARTAGENA
Replies: 63

4/26/2013 11:23:07 AM
JamonRye

RECRUIT: LAVON LONG
Replies: 13

4/26/2013 10:20:35 AM
BM

Hope you are happy with your purchase Herve!
Replies: 1

4/26/2013 7:07:31 AM
GW Alum Abroad

gwhoops.com Digest - 4/25/2013
Replies: 0

4/25/2013 10:51:32 PM
herve

International Assistant Coach
Replies: 0

4/25/2013 3:07:12 PM
LA Fan

Jabari Hinds WVA
Replies: 2

4/25/2013 11:15:59 AM
DEA

Why did we honor David pellom as a graduating senior
Replies: 8

4/25/2013 9:35:01 AM
Neil

gwhoops.com Digest - 4/24/2013
Replies: 0

4/24/2013 10:51:27 PM
herve

RECRUIT: RASHARD KELLY
Replies: 8

4/24/2013 8:37:48 PM
Florida Colonial

Give mike the benefit. He is making close to president knapp. He will not f@@k it up like kh did.
Replies: 5

4/24/2013 8:14:18 PM
Neil

10-21
Replies: 7

4/24/2013 1:13:07 PM
What?

30 second shot clock?
Replies: 9

4/24/2013 9:26:56 AM
GW Fan

RECRUIT: ERIC CARTER
Replies: 0

4/24/2013 8:56:58 AM
BM

another 1 that got away-Mark Williams
Replies: 3

4/24/2013 5:09:44 AM
GDUB4

gwhoops.com Digest - 4/23/2013
Replies: 0

4/23/2013 10:51:24 PM
herve

RECRUIT: SANDY COHEN
Replies: 0

4/23/2013 9:15:06 PM
Florida Colonial

Cap Classic Rosters
Replies: 4

4/23/2013 8:42:09 PM
BM

Dooley to Florida Gulf Coast
Replies: 37

4/23/2013 10:30:55 AM
Poog

gwhoops.com Digest - 4/22/2013
Replies: 0

4/22/2013 10:52:28 PM
herve

The Non Nigel Johnson thread
Replies: 12

4/22/2013 10:03:47 PM
Florida Colonial

Phil Hochberg
Replies: 9

4/22/2013 5:30:23 PM
BM

Gun Control(OT)
Replies: 59

4/22/2013 9:10:47 AM
Steven

GW Baseball vs Fordham
Replies: 3

4/21/2013 11:12:02 PM
the sons of liberty

gwhoops.com Digest - 4/21/2013
Replies: 0

4/21/2013 10:51:23 PM
herve

RECRUIT: EVAN TAYLOR
Replies: 1

4/21/2013 10:53:01 AM
Mike K

gwhoops.com Digest - 4/20/2013
Replies: 0

4/20/2013 10:53:46 PM
herve

Official NLI announcement
Replies: 22

4/20/2013 7:53:38 PM
BM

RECRUIT: ANDRE WALKER
Replies: 4

4/20/2013 8:23:06 AM
BM

gwhoops.com Digest - 4/19/2013
Replies: 0

4/19/2013 10:54:11 PM
herve

RECRUIT: JOSH HEARLIHY
Replies: 21

4/19/2013 6:27:49 PM
BM

RECRUIT: ASHLEY WILLIAMS
Replies: 6

4/19/2013 5:40:55 PM
BM

Davidson on the verge of joining A-10
Replies: 20

4/19/2013 11:46:08 AM
GCLY89

gwhoops.com Digest - 4/18/2013
Replies: 0

4/18/2013 10:55:01 PM
herve

How many scholarships are left to give out?
Replies: 15

4/18/2013 12:57:59 PM
NewGWFan

For You TT "Haters"
Replies: 8

4/18/2013 12:48:47 PM
ziik

RECRUIT: Jerome Seagars
Replies: 39

4/18/2013 12:33:21 PM
BM

gwhoops.com Digest - 4/17/2013
Replies: 0

4/17/2013 11:40:22 PM
herve

Sutton Submits Name for Vacant FL Gulf Coast Head Job
Replies: 29

4/17/2013 8:00:08 PM
herve

Quevyn Winters and 4 others leaving Duquesne
Replies: 4

4/17/2013 3:52:49 PM
Free Quebec

If it Quacks Like a Duck ... (OT)
Replies: 2

4/17/2013 12:43:38 PM
Eugene

gwhoops.com Digest - 4/16/2013
Replies: 0

4/16/2013 10:51:37 PM
herve

RECRUIT: MARK WILLIAMS
Replies: 16

4/16/2013 9:49:32 AM
CPots

gwhoops.com Digest - 4/15/2013
Replies: 0

4/15/2013 10:58:45 PM
herve

RECRUIT: ANTHONY PATE
Replies: 0

4/15/2013 9:48:29 AM
BM

Recruit coming this weekend
Replies: 57

4/15/2013 2:48:11 AM
DEA

GW Washington Post Story
Replies: 19

4/15/2013 2:42:54 AM
LA Fan

More of This!
Replies: 1

4/15/2013 1:01:30 AM
BM

welcome Davidson!
Replies: 0

4/15/2013 12:57:39 AM
NJ Colonial

gwhoops.com Digest - 4/14/2013
Replies: 0

4/14/2013 10:57:07 PM
herve

Rutgers
Replies: 8

4/14/2013 2:18:37 PM
BM

gwhoops.com Digest - 4/13/2013
Replies: 0

4/13/2013 10:53:00 PM
herve

A possible guard target/transfer
Replies: 3

4/13/2013 8:04:03 PM
Florida Colonial

Hopefully We Will Get Some Recruiting News From This.
Replies: 0

4/13/2013 11:32:48 AM
Mike K

gwhoops.com Digest - 4/12/2013
Replies: 0

4/12/2013 10:53:43 PM
herve

Stadium Journey review of the Smith Center
Replies: 10

4/12/2013 1:19:17 PM
Long Suffering Fan

gwhoops.com Digest - 4/11/2013
Replies: 0

4/11/2013 10:53:47 PM
herve

Questions That Must Be Asked ...
Replies: 55

4/11/2013 10:22:20 AM
CBO

gwhoops.com Digest - 4/10/2013
Replies: 0

4/10/2013 10:55:52 PM
herve

Cross Jon Severe off the list
Replies: 2

4/10/2013 12:39:20 PM
GW21

gwhoops.com Digest - 4/9/2013
Replies: 0

4/9/2013 10:51:26 PM
herve

OT--Who Wins? Who Cares?
Replies: 7

4/9/2013 8:27:23 PM
ziik

coaching changes 2013
Replies: 0

4/9/2013 4:04:18 PM
GWSB '11

VCU pre-season #14
Replies: 2

4/9/2013 1:54:59 PM
herve

Play nice
Replies: 0

4/9/2013 11:54:08 AM
Old Prof

Who am I?
Replies: 8

4/9/2013 9:31:33 AM
Long Suffering Fan

gwhoops.com Digest - 4/8/2013
Replies: 0

4/8/2013 10:55:27 PM
herve

Did you all know this?
Replies: 13

4/8/2013 6:37:07 PM
BACCAS92

Hobbs & Mid-Major Coaches
Replies: 7

4/8/2013 10:45:31 AM
Wax Daddy

gwhoops.com Digest - 4/7/2013
Replies: 0

4/7/2013 10:51:46 PM
herve

Maybe we will recruit JUCOs
Replies: 5

4/7/2013 11:52:56 AM
Florida Colonial

Nick Griffin Third Team All-Met
Replies: 13

4/7/2013 10:00:05 AM
Yinka dont Stinka

Honestly! I can't leave the country for one second without you guys messing everything up! nt
Replies: 3

4/7/2013 8:13:40 AM
herve

gwhoops.com Digest - 4/6/2013
Replies: 0

4/6/2013 10:51:09 PM
herve

Maybe we will recruit JUCOs
Replies: 0

4/6/2013 7:32:02 AM
Florida Colonial

gwhoops.com Digest - 4/5/2013
Replies: 0

4/5/2013 10:53:17 PM
herve

Here's a good upper: Garino interview
Replies: 5

4/5/2013 4:14:31 AM
BM

gwhoops.com Digest - 4/4/2013
Replies: 0

4/4/2013 10:51:09 PM
herve

Lonergan got what he wanted
Replies: 69

4/4/2013 10:34:12 PM
Knew this was coming

Lehman with the Save
Replies: 0

4/4/2013 10:07:15 PM
Poog

RECRUIT: THERENCE MAYIMBA
Replies: 5

4/4/2013 9:26:39 PM
CPots

How Can You Blame Johnson????
Replies: 12

4/4/2013 8:34:53 PM
Levinger

Backup Point Guard
Replies: 29

4/4/2013 7:27:29 PM
bobo

Hoping the worst is behind us
Replies: 7

4/4/2013 2:56:07 PM
NewGWFan

Jamail JOnes
Replies: 4

4/4/2013 12:26:29 AM
DEA

gwhoops.com Digest - 4/3/2013
Replies: 0

4/3/2013 10:52:25 PM
herve

RECRUIT: JORDAN ABDURRAOOF
Replies: 9

4/3/2013 8:13:58 PM
Mike K

Random but infuriating
Replies: 9

4/3/2013 5:20:33 PM
Steven

Sounds weird but
Replies: 23

4/3/2013 4:43:11 PM
DEA

American University
Replies: 2

4/3/2013 3:20:41 PM
NewGWFan

Rutgers' fires their basketball coach
Replies: 2

4/3/2013 12:06:57 PM
neil

Some Good News Today [Baseball] PART II
Replies: 2

4/3/2013 9:55:35 AM
CJS Fan

gwhoops.com Digest - 4/2/2013
Replies: 0

4/2/2013 10:51:07 PM
herve

Lonergan friend headed to Siena
Replies: 5

4/2/2013 7:58:15 PM
Poog

some good news today
Replies: 6

4/2/2013 2:24:57 PM
the sons of liberty

Status heading into Spring Signing
Replies: 13

4/2/2013 11:10:08 AM
GDUB4

gwhoops.com Digest - 4/1/2013
Replies: 0

4/1/2013 10:51:46 PM
herve

scam or legit? (OT)
Replies: 2

4/1/2013 6:57:25 PM
GW Alum Abroad

Urban problems
Replies: 9

4/1/2013 6:07:11 PM
Dootie Bubble

gwhoops.com Digest - 3/31/2013
Replies: 0

3/31/2013 10:51:34 PM
herve

A hinderance to recruiting
Replies: 9

3/31/2013 9:33:44 PM
Steven

VCU
Replies: 1

3/31/2013 9:01:02 PM
SMF

gwhoops.com Digest - 3/30/2013
Replies: 0

3/30/2013 10:51:37 PM
herve

GW Shout-out on Nats Talk
Replies: 0

3/30/2013 10:37:40 AM
Poog

Vote your favorite GW recruiting fiasco
Replies: 15

3/30/2013 9:42:10 AM
Mentzinger

Johnson decommits!
Replies: 0

3/30/2013 8:26:26 AM
maypoman

Nigel Johnson
Replies: 0

3/30/2013 2:52:53 AM
Dude

gwhoops.com Digest - 3/29/2013
Replies: 0

3/29/2013 10:53:14 PM
herve

Dead Man Walking The Rise and Decline of GW Basketball in the Hobbs Era
3/7/2009 7:09:00 PM
Poster: thinker

Dead Man Walking – The Rise and Decline of GW Basketball in the Hobbs Era

Let’s start with how Hobbs built to our season of glory 2005-2006 that ended with the disastrous Omar Williams story in the Washington Post.   As I discuss prep schools, I admit that I haven’t done ehaustive research on their legitimacy and am going on some basic assumptions – sorry if I mischaracterize one or two.  I will begin with the key recruiting class of 2002:

Pops Mensa Bonsu – Prep School

Omar Williams – Phony Prep School

Mike Hall – Real H.S.

Ale Kireev – Questionable Prep School

Recruiting class of 2003:

JR Pinnock – Questionable Prep School

Ricky Lucas – Real H.S.

Jaaron Greene – Questionable Prep School

Carl Elliott – Questionable Prep School

Recruiting Class of 2004:

Mo – Phony Prep School

Recruiting Class of 2005:

Rob Diggs – Real H.S.

Noel Wilmore – Real H.S.

Montrell MacDonald – Prep School

Transfers and walk-ons that came through in this era – Dokun Akingbade (redshirted in 2005-2006) and Regis Koundjia.

So our 2005-2006 roster was comprised of these 12: Pops, Mike, Omar, Carl, JR, Mo, Regis, Dokun (redshirt), Kireev, Montrell, Diggs, and Wilmore, plus a couple misc. guys.  So leading up to our glorious year Hobbs had recruited a team that had SI professional level players on the team at one time, SEVEN if you count Akingbade and EIGHT if you count Regis who had that kind of talent but didn’t have the chance to develop.  Pardon my French – but that was a fucking awesome lineup.  The team’s key players included two players who went to phony prep schools, three that went to questionable prep schools, two that went to seemingly legit prep schools, one walkon, one transfer, one key player that went to a legit H.S. and two freshman (who didn’t contribute much in that year) who went to legit H.S.’s.

Hobbs was out there doing what he does best – grabbing talented players, many of whom had questionable academic backgrounds.

Now in another time and place it has been and will be discussed how JK and Hobbs could assemble THAT team and play the schedule that they did that year.  Here’s our OOC schedule for that once in a millennium team: Kennesaw State, Norfolk State, Boston U., St. Francis, Maryland (BB&T), Florida International, Morgan State, Maryland Eastern Shore, NC State, and Stony Brook.  So you take that team, virtually run the table and get an 8 seed with the “honor” to play UNCW and if you win, over all #1 seed Duke – both in North Carolina.

Then the apocryphal Washington Post story on Omar.  Fair/unfair?  Why not point out all the other teams that did the same thing?  Was this a part of the media bias/conspiracy in favor of Gary Williams and Maryland that was getting eclipsed by Hobbs?  Much more discussion on that elsewhere.  Whatever, whatever – the result is that GW put the reins on Hobbs after that and now let’s look at the fallout:

Prior to the apocalypse it was pretty set that these were going to be our recruits for 2006:

Jeremy Wise

Asarangue Souleymane

Damian Hollis (btw he signed in February of 2006 before the Washington Post story), and

Theo Davis or Phil Jones or Jason Love.

Wise, Asarangue, Davis, and Jones all had VERY questionable academic backgrounds and were immediately ditched.  Of those players only Wise turned into a legit star – but he is a legit star at Mississippi State now.  He would definitely be the best player on our present team (you can look up his stats).  Jason Love turned into a very solid player for avier, he’d be one of our better players, but he was a longer shot to come here.  Hobbs has to now scramble and signs at the last minute King and Opoku.  GW is caught with its pants down, everyone is in an uproar and the decline has begun.  We won’t really understand the implications of everything until 2009, but it started here.

You still have enough in the tank for the 2006-2007 season with Carl, Dokun, Mo, Regis, Diggs, good contributions from King and Hollis to make the NCAA’s.  Obviously the team is hurt by the early departure of JR.   But it was the swan song.

You try to compensate with a couple of transfers – Cheyanne and Wynton.

2007 recruiting class – the first full year under the new rules – here’s what we get (all legit students):

Beatty, Jabari, Katuka, and avier.  And frankly I doubt we recruited avier because the story is that his brother DeAngelo who played on Charlotte told him he should come here.  But that class was a bust of epic proportions.  We go into 2007-2008 full of high epectations.  We don’t know yet that our talent level has decreased eponentially.  We don’t know yet about the bad apples, personality problems, behavior issues, chemistry problems.  I believe in my heart that if Hobbs does well with that team then Wesley Witherspoon comes to GW, instead of Memphis where he is playing 16 minutes per game on a roster with a bunch of NBA players.  Instead the team implodes.  Witherspoon doesn’t come, instead our 2008 recruits include:

Tony Taylor, Aaron Ware, and Matt Allbritton (all legit H.S. students).  And this season, I guess everyone already knows what we have.

So, since the Washington Post story, Hobbs has recruited eactly ZERO players who could at this moment  be seen as definite legitimate A-10 players.  Remember Hollis doesn’t count because he was already signed.  If you missed that, I’ll repeat it – Hobbs has not recruited ONE SINGLE obvious A-10 caliber legit player at GW since the Washington Post story.  He 100% positively lost Wise and a prospect big man in 2006 and he 90% lost little Spoon because the team couldn’t play well in the new era.

I look at all of this and conclude that Oscar is right about Hobbs – he’s the same guy he always was.  He isn’t allowed to recruit players that he can win with and he isn’t a good enough ’s and o’s coach to win with the players he can now recruit.  I put a lot of the blame on JK because he’s in charge and sat there and watched all of this happen.  Obviously Hobbs plays a role because he didn’t adjust to his new circumstances.  But writing this I guess I better understand (though don’t condone) his bitterness.

So where do we go from here?  I do note with interest that of the 4 known recruits for ’09, three are in prep schools and two have been linked/rumored to behavior and character issues/problems.  So has the school decided to allow Hobbs more leeway going forward?  Is it too late?  Probably, in my mind, unless Hobbs can get the big recruit he’s after.  If he gets that player and is allowed to recruit from a broader pool, maybe he can turn it around.  Of course I’d fire JK no matter what.  In any event I hope this post gives the newbies on the board a greater historical perspective and maybe everyone else some more to chew on.



2/14/2009 12:29:00 PM
Poster: newtman

thinker, great summary of where we are and how we got there.  I think KH found out just how tough life is when you play by the rules.  Been a Colonials fan since enrolling in fall '68 and it's too bad about the recent plunge in GW bb fortunes.  That said I'm pleased GW's bb program was eposed by the Post.  The fact WP didn't write articles about other schools is irrelevant.  It's college, let's run a clean program run by people who care about the players and fans.

Wouldn't you like to see an interview with Bob C similar to the one JK just gave?  Is Bob C waiting until the end of the season too?  I think it will say a lot about the administration's commitment to bb, if GW eats the remainder of KH and JK's contracts.  They both should go.



2/14/2009 12:32:00 PM
Poster: Poog

Without quibbling about some of your characterizations of the high schools players attended, are you suggesting that GW (Kvancz, Chernak, Trachtenberg, denizens of GWhoops.com) should have looked the other way and not  "put the reins" on the recruiting of Hobbs and the men's program after the Washington Post article? Hobbs was brought in to clean up the stench left by the Penders years. He said as much when he was hired and accepted the limitations (and opportunities) of the situation at GW. He may have underestimated those limitations and may not have reaped the ancillary support he was promised/epected, but I'm not sure that the situation at GW has changed that much other than the embarassment brought on by the Post epose.  Omar was a success story evidenced by his graduation; Mo was a story with a less happy ending. Last year was a disappointment/embarassment  that has continued this year and snowballed into a fan revolt, at least as represented by most opinions epressed here.

Everyone involved with the program justifiably gets tainted by the situation with the men's basketball team, but I'm less clear how the dots of your premise connect so directly back to JK.  Was Karl essentially being hung out to dry after the Post article Jack's doing and does it eplain where we are today? Is our crappy schedule responsible for the problems you discuss? Is the failure to become the darlings of the local media and fans after our 27-3 season responsible for the player disaffection and sub-par recruiting that you decry in your post?  Are Jack's tepid comments and observations to reporters this year the cause or effect of what's happening (and isn't it really far more diplomatic and PC than what many have said here)?  Really, I'm just trying to understand your logic so I can better understand either the blanket condemnation of everyone in the athletic department or the sense I get that you are suggesting that Coach Hobbs may not bear primary responsibility for what you are complaining about. Or are you simply suggesting that Hobbs shouldn't get credit for his past unprecedented successes at GW and therefore isn't entitled to continue to have the opportunity to get things back on a course that he and we want?



2/14/2009 12:43:00 PM
Poster: LA Fan

The first rule to success as a GW basketball coach is to have an angle.  You are not going to get top 100 recruits to pass on Georgetown and Duke to come play ball in a dilapidated (sp?) gym in Foggy Bottom for a program that receives no press coverage, has minimal fan support, and a conference with a lot of dead weight (which I think now includes us).

So you have to think out of the bo.  I remember when Jarvis landed Yinka Dare.  Jarvis was still struggling to get his footing, and then all of a sudden there was this buzz on campus among the people who cared about the program that we landed a jackpot player, and he wasn't even coming for another year.  Jarvis went international and he successfully followed Dare up with other foreign players.  We went to the Sweet 16, life was good, but when other schools saw his success they started putting more efforts into getting the same players, and by his last couple of seasons Jarvis was left recruiting average U.S. high school players (and a couple of average foreign players) and the jig was up.

Cut to Hobbs 10 years later and you see a list by Thinker above that has the most talented line-up of Colonials ever assembled on one team.  Those player made GW the 6th ranked team in the nation (almost impossible to believe at this point).  Hobbs angle was to get players from shaky prep schools.  Like Jarvis, it worked; all of a sudden we saw athletes on the court wearing GW uniforms that we never imagined we would see.  I remember seeing dunks by Pinnock, Montrell McDonald (yes, he was a great athlete) and the others and thinking, "this is not the GW basketball that I am used to".  It was like Jerry Tarkanian came to GW and started assembling the runnin' Colonials.

Then that lousy article came out about GW and the prep schools.  It felt like the day it came out the jig was up.  GW had a reputation to protect as a school, and it wasn't going to sacrifice it for a basketball team, even a good one that was getting some nice national media attention.  So here we are a few years later, dead in the water, going after 1 and 2 star high school recruits, sinking to the bottom of the conference with our old friends Duquesne and the Bonnies, and there doesn't seem to be any light at the end of the tunnel.

It's time for GW basketball's 3rd act.  We need a new coach and Bob Chernak to sit together and brainstorm and come up with the new angle.  We can't do international, we can't do prep schools (I wish we could, it worked for me).  So what will GW do to be a top 30 team again?  Someone needs to write a business plan and put it in motion, and maybe in 3 or 4 years we will be back again.





2/14/2009 1:21:00 PM
Poster: alum1

Thinker's long list and post is interesting.  But it really only takes a few seconds to sum up Hobbs.  It is as I've said before -- he caught lightening in a bottle with a group of kids who turned out to be super players and -- for the most part -- great kids.  He also had more competent assistants.  We can blame the reaction to The Post story all we want, but the simple fact is that he sin't any good.  We thought we had both a good recruiter and a good coach.  Turns out he was a charlatan at both.  If he was a half decent recruiter, he could have (should have) ode the winds of the 27-3 team and upgraded the level and quality of recruiting almost without effort..  He didn't.  Even after the Post story, he managed a third consecutive trip to the Dance, and he still couldn't capitalize on it recruting-wise.   That's becasue he's a fraud as a recruiter.

Then you get to his coaching skills.  Of which there basically none.   And he can't even manage to look the part on the sideline. 

Fraud recrutier.  Incompetent coach.

Karl Hobbs.  Koach Klown. 



2/14/2009 1:32:00 PM
Poster: thinker

Poog,

I don't think my post really complains about anything - I was trying to show how we got where we are.  I'm not saying we should recruit kids with questionable academics or that we shouldn't.  Just that a big part of Hobbs' success was in doing so and when not allowed to do so he is apparently unable to succeed.  How does all this tie to JK?  Well he's the boss.  He knew or should have known how Hobbs was succeeding and he presumably endorsed it.  He presumably was a big part of the discussion that changed all of that after the article so he's the last guy that should be surprised at the result given his immense basketball eperience.  All pretty neutral.  Now we are at a spot that shows that Hobbs cannot succeed at GW having to recruit the way he's apparently been told to recruit.  I think showing all of the players before and after the article puts a very clear perspective on how things changed. 

We've had the opportunity to see all of Maryland's dirty laundry in the Post this past week so we know that recruiting is a dirty business and schools that want to thrive have to find a way to work in the system as it is.  GW, apparently, does not currently have an answer to where you draw the line in a way that does not embarrass the University but still fields an entertaining and (for GW standards) successful team.  The bar in my mind has never been to repeat the '05-'06 season.  I knew at the time that I'd probably never see another season like that in my life.  The bar at GW needs to be competetive in league games, predominantly winning seasons, a run in the A-10 tourney every few years and post season every 3-4 years with no criminals on the squad.  My complaints against JK are known and run deeper than the subject of this particular thread - scheduling, response to the article, PR, etc. fall outside this thread.  This is about the rise and decline fo GW baskettball under Hobbs, and my focus here is predominantly on recruting.  Hobbs' coaching methods are discussed at length elsewhere and I'm not an 's and o's epert myself so I don;t feel qualified to make real specific cirticisms on that front.  Suffice to say I don't think Hobbs is a great bench coach and I'm not sure many people would disagree.  My post in sum is really just - When Hobbs could recruit who he wanted he was able to win at GW on a grand scale.  After the Post article and recruiting restrictions were placed on him, he showed that he could lose on a grand scale.  



2/14/2009 1:50:00 PM
Poster: Poog

Ok, that helps clarify your post. I don't think I fully agree with the notion that Jack being the "boss" means he had as much influence and control over the program as you suggest, but I do accept the premise that the AD bears some responsibility for the conduct and performance of the coaches and teams he oversees. Either way, it could be a few years before we realistically epect March Madness to include us.


2/14/2009 2:42:00 PM
Poster: Mentzinger

Coupla corrections/clarifications:
  • Wise is with Eustachy at Southern Miss.
  • Pinnock's prep school, Coastal Christian, was a phony.
  • Dunno if you wanted to include it, but even though cleared by the Clearinghouse, HS diplomas were never confirmed for Rice, Pinnock, Omar or Elliott
Otherwise, spot on.

As for Phil Jones, we'll be seeing him later on today.


2/14/2009 1:58:00 PM
Poster: Poog

To clarify my own post, I certainly accept the notion that JK had a role in reevaluating and revising the kind of situations and players GW would recruit. Beyond establishing those parameters and perhaps providing counsel, I would epect that Jack's background as a coach would have him take much more of a hands off approach to how the program is actually run.


2/14/2009 2:18:00 PM
Poster: thinker

Poog,

I get that you think this thread is about JK and how much responsibility he bears for all of the problems.  To me JK isn't what this thread is about.  We can do another thread - "Should JK be held responsible."  And I'm not saying you can't comment on whatever you want to comment on. But all this side tracks my focus on how dramatically everything points to that one moment of the Post article.  I understood the impact in a general way - but listing all of the players and seeing that Hobbs hasn't recruited a SINGLE bona fide A-10 player since the article was a real eye opener for me.  I would have thought the debate would go to - Well what are the restrictions on Hobbs?  Have they been removed or changed given who he has recruited for net year? 

Mentz,

Thanks for your clarifications and corrections.  I always mi up my Mississippi schools.



2/14/2009 2:27:00 PM
Poster: Mentzinger

Because I often sound like a foe of the program, let me also add for the record that I am eternally grateful that KH brought Rice, JR, Omar and Duke to GW. Best move he ever made. The problem has been, no Plan B.
This quaint link encapsulates the moment of defeat rather tidily.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE2DC1331F933A25750C0A9609C8B63


2/14/2009 3:02:00 PM
Poster: bobo

Thinker,

I don't know what you consider a "legitimate A10 player" but I think Hobbs has recruited several with the talent to play in this league the last couple of years.  What you are looking at is the end result of their talent, coaching, work ethic, health and basketball scheme.  There are lots of ingredients that have gone into the teams poor play and the players lack of development, but to place all the blame on the recruiting is short sighted.

Travis King doesn't have the talent to play in the A10? I disagree. He looked pretty good his freshman year (prior to injury).  Tony Taylor seems like he'll be a solid A10 pg during his career. Maybe not All League good, but a solid A10 player.  Joe Katuka should becaome a more reliable center for GW.

The 2007-2008 recruting class (avier, Katuka, Edwards, Beatty) was higher rated than the 2002-2003 class (Hall, Omar, Pops, Kireev). All four recruits from the 2007 class were 3 Stars rated by Rivals.  Only Omar was from the first class.  All 4 recruits from the 2007 class had OFFERs from BSC schools: avier (Nebraska, WSU), Katuka (St Joes, Rutgers), Edwards (Vilanova), Beatty (Maryland, Rutgers, St Johns).   http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/commitlist.asp

But the 2002 class developed into something better than anyone could have reasonably epected. Last year's class was, as you say, a complet bust.  I still think Katuka can produce in this league and maybe Edwars will develop (he's only a freshman).  avier showed some good promise as a freshman, but got homesick and didn't do anything to improve his skills.  Beatty was very tallented but was an obvious head case and maybe Hobbs should have known that in advance, but I didn't hear anything bad about the others prior to them commng to GW.

Injuries, poor coaching, lack of player developmen (avier never learing to hit FTs, inability for raw big men to improve), and a offensive and defensive system that clearly does not highlight the talents on the current squad are just as damaging as poor recruiting.  What we see now on the court is a result of all of those problems, not strictly poor recruiting.



2/14/2009 4:54:00 PM
Poster: thinker

Bobo,

I stand by my assessment of Hobbs' recruiting.  Maybe Travis gets an asterisk, but sorry brother he's almost certainly done.  Ask any Dr. - you just don;t recover from that injury.  Yeah maybe Taylor turns into a solid A-10 player.  He isn't one yet.  Neither is Katuka, neither was Beatty.  Don't let the stars fool you.  Stars are about hype - particularly for the higher profile kids.  Many services give kids stars having never seen them play.  I don't think it counts for much.  Look at the list again, who has come since 2006 that has shown that they are legit A-10 players?



2/14/2009 5:17:00 PM
Poster: thinker

Frosh Sweetie,

It's spelled stalking - just like it's pronounced.  If you know how to pronounce it.

You must have been cute as a baby three years ago with that lisp of yours.



2/14/2009 5:24:00 PM
Poster: Alumnus

Frosh, who has the problem?  We're talking about basketball and you keep throwing your seual fantasies on the board.  I think the answer's pretty obvious.  Write letters to Penthouse, at least then you'll be in the company you deserve.



2/14/2009 5:38:00 PM
Poster: gwislander

Ecellent analysis Thinker.  If net year's recruits are all from prep schools, maybe this is the factor that Hobbs need in order to right what's wrong in his current program.

On a side note, does anyone know what become of Omar lately?


2/14/2009 5:51:00 PM
Poster: nasser

newtman

"That said I'm pleased GW's bb program was eposed by the Post.  The fact WP didn't write articles about other schools is irrelevant.  It's college, let's run a clean program run by people who care about the players and fans."

Actually, it is completely relevant that other programs were not eposed.  Sure life isn't fair but we sure got the shaft in comparison to a lot of other programs who tend to bring in very questionable character guys year in and year out and continue to win and generate income for the school.  Is it fair to those questionable characters?  I think it is because being on a college campus puts them in an environment they've never been in before and gives them the resources to better themselves if they so wish.  If they're at GW only to play basketball, coast with a 1.5 GPA, but they're generating $$ for the school, so be it, they still have every opportunity to turn things around if they want to and they should be pushed to do so, but if not, I'm willing to turn a blind eye.  Yes this sounds morally bankrupt but come on, it is what many AD's around the country have been and continue to think every day of their job.

GW just got unlucky because we happened to be the last people to jump on the back of the gravy train and the Washington Post pushed us right off as fast as they could.  Not like they did anything to anyone else on board, however.

If you're truly "pleased that the program was eposed by the Post" then you must hate all of the money and media attention the school could have gotten and how that money could have helped GW.



2/14/2009 6:52:00 PM
Poster: The MV

Let's differentiate among three different things: a) bad character guys, b) academic risks and c) guys who went to fraudulent prep schools.  What the NY Times and Washington Post eposed was c).  And, what could have been the etent of GW's remedy would have been to simply stay away from recruiting kids who attended such schools.  In fact, had this been the remedy in and of itself, these past two seasons would likely have had markedly different results.

Depending on your point of view, the problem stems from the overreaction taken by GW's administration.  Bad character guys get recruited all the time.  Coaches have to decide whether their talent outweighs the baggage.  You can be a great student and a bad character guy.  This decision was Hobbs's call and since he's the one who has to be around these guys all the time, I'm not going to defend or criticize his take on this.

The enormous problem with our recruiting today is that we are now shying away from anyone who resembles an academic risk.  This is what I mean by an overeaction.  It's no secret that the average GPA and test scores of a Division 1 basketball player is typically less than the player's student population as a whole.  Making eceptions for athletes has always been in play.  The question of course is the ETENT to which a school is willing to bend over backwards to admit a recruit.  And this is where I believe KH is being hamstrung by the school's administration.  We are no longer going after kids from legitimate high schools who we once were prior to the prep school scandal. 

I can respect Newtman who is OK with the way things are because at least now we are running a clean program.  However, I would question just how dirty our program was a few years ago.  Omar did leave as a college graduate.  Maureece had a successful three years at GW with all reports indicating that he was doing fine academically prior to his senior season.  To my knowledge, under Hobbs, we have not been paying players, families or AAU coaches for players to attend GW.  We have not employed prostitutes to show recruits a good time.  And, we have not allowed players to miss classes and demonstrate an inability to learn while handing them diplomas.  I mention these things because they are far more commonplace at bigger schools than GW. 

As Thinker has summed up, whether you deem our current players to belegitimate A10 players or not, there is no arguing the dropoff in talent over the past few years.  I believe it was Alum1 who said that he found it incredible that GW couldn't capitalize on the 27-3 season from a recruiting standpoint.  What I'd argue is that we were in a position to do just that but we had to start saying no to some players who did in fact come from legitimate high schools.  I do believe that this decision to overreact has been the primary reason why we are where we are.



2/14/2009 9:49:00 PM
Poster: maypoman

The net GW coach, whomever he is, must be an 's and O's guy first and a recruiter second. Why? Because no coach at GW will ever be able to recruit top players. No coach ever has and no coach ever will. Wrong size field house, wrong league, small private school, etc. (Count our NBA players over the years-- that's a pretty good yardstick). That is simply not going to change. Sure Karl could recruit at Connecticut. He was at CONNECTICUT!  If Jack thought that Karl was going to be able to recruit the same way here-- shame on him and shame on us if we thought so too. So the program bent some few rules and we got some very good (but not blue chip) players and succeeded with them. But that avenue is now gone and we need to ackowledge that. As a result we must have a coach that can win through teaching, strategy, rapport with his players, etc. The last two seasons have, unfortunately, proved in a painful way that Karl, as much as I like him personally, is not that guy.  Hopefully the net coach will be.


2/14/2009 10:01:00 PM
Poster: newtman

nasser, you said 'GW just got unlucky because we happened to be the last people to jump on the back of the gravy train and the Washington Post pushed us right off as fast as they could.' GW just got unlucky. NO we got caught.


2/14/2009 10:20:00 PM
Poster: ELJ

Mentz,

I didn't realize JR had attended two different preps.  For the record, his other one, Worcester Aacdemy, is definitely NOT a phony.



2/14/2009 11:47:00 PM
Poster: Mentzinger

No, ELJ. Youre thinking of Elliott who went to Worcester (a legitimate prep), after he'd already prepped at Trinity-Pawling (another legit prep). Dunno that he graduated either.
http://gwsports.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/041703aaa.html

Here's JR's signing.
http://gwsports.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/042103aaa.html


2/14/2009 11:47:00 PM
Poster: thinker

I don't think that the answer is all crooked or all virginal.  It is about finding the right place in between.  I also agree with MV that GW over reacted to the article.  Again - to me that's way more on JK than Hobbs - though clearly there were other parts of the University that weighed in heavily on the matter.


2/15/2009 1:13:00 AM
Poster: bobo

Once again, Thinker, I think there are several players on your list that have the talent to play in the A10.  They may not be stars, but King, Taylor, Katuka and others belong in the A10.  Others didn't work out for other reasons: injury, off-court problems, lack of coaching, player development, etc.

What you are seeing is the net result of several factors, one being recruiting.  To put it all on recruiting is just plain lazy analysis. 



2/15/2009 6:04:00 AM
Poster: alum1

Spot on Bobo.  Another coach could have turned this lot into a very competitive, more cohesive, and improving squad.  That's the whole point.  He's not the great recruiter he was made out to be and even  the kids he gets that have potential, he can't develop them.  BUt you're right, the long litany of recruting ecuses and mistakes are only part of the larger picture. 

By the way, a few questions to ponder:  with respct to our former players, I wonder what kind of impact a better coach might have had on the future careers of Pops, Mike, et al?  You have to wonder if that was a bit of a missing link for these kids?  Also, is it only me, or does anyone else think that the best we're going to get around here is the marginal kid that needs a lot of development to grow into a good, A-10 capable player?  It's sort of like Providence or St John's in the  Big East, the blue chips are going to go to the marquee programs, so you have to get kids who are the proverbial diamonds in the rough, develop them and hope you get the right combination.  Unfortunately we#ve got a caoch who can't improve these kinds of players, so it's a recipe for disaster.  Wrong coach at the wrong program.



2/15/2009 11:23:00 AM
Poster: thinker

Bobo,

Absolutely, Hobbs is not a good 's' and o's coach.  That didn't stop him from succeeding when he had better players.  Of course a better coach would do better with these players than what we've done.  Don't get fiated on whether Katuka or Taylor or King or whoever are real good players.  MAYBE they can be.  They haven't shown in games that they are.  Maybe they will get better.  I'm not saying they're bad kids.  They just haven't shown they can play at a high A-10 level YET.  On this current team you could say that only Diggs, Hollis, and maybe Wynton are guys that could be epected to get 20 points or 10 rebounds or whatever in any given game.

I focused on recruiting, because frankly I think Hobbs' success and failure as been all about recruiting.  When he could recruit the guys he wanted - he won.  When couldn't he lost.  Pretty simple.



2/15/2009 11:33:00 AM
Poster: nasser

I am of the persuasion that Karl Hobbs just may have the worst social skills of any human being on the planet.  Now I have never even met KH in person so I have no way of knowing this directly, but many signs point to this.

Some of ya'll are right in saying that KH has actually recruited many A-10 capable players to our program, but they just haven't worked out for various reasons.  I strongly believe that Miles Beatty, Montrell, and were A-10 quality players who didn't work out partially because they themselves were jackasses, but also because KH did not nurture them properly at all.  The fact has always been and will continue to be that when you are recruiting college basketball players, you are most often recruiting kids from rough backgrounds who have maybe had one or two positive influences in their lives.  Growing up in Big 10 country, I have seen plenty of kids go through programs who were considered to be possible character headcases when they came in and leave the program and better individuals with college degrees.  Of course, in every program there are recruits who don't pan out, but come on, this is being very disproportionate in regards to GW.  I don't know what it is with KH and our program, but we don't seem to do a very good job acclimating kids to GW.  Montrell and both cited homesickness (could be bs but they did say it) as one reason that they left.  Maybe it is because GW has crappy student support and no school spirit that is making these kids feel unwelcome.  Or it could very well be that Karl Hobbs does not do a great job of nurturing the kids.

Just throwing that out there.

Oh, and yes, Tony Taylor definitely belongs in the A10.  Katuka could really be a pretty good A10 player if he was developed properly.  I think Aaron Ware will turn out to be a good role player, and I thought King was going to have his own era at GW before his injury.  There is a lot more to this than recruiting. 



2/15/2009 1:44:00 PM
Poster: thinker

Nasser,

Welcome to the world where anybody can claim to be an epert on anything.  I'm not an epert on HS basketball and don't claim to be.  Recruiting sites and stars don't mean that much.  All I can truly comment on confidently about players is what I see.  I saw Beatty play a few times and I saw that he was pretty slow, unathletic, and had a VERY akward shooting motion.  You say he's an A-10 talent.  What do you have to back that up?  Talent and ability to fit into a team and behave and perform academically are all different things.  Montrell is probably an immensely talented kid who has now been on/left/thrown off I think 4 different NCAA teams.  With him it's not about talent.  Is Tony Taylor a nice kid?  It sure seems like it.  Does he have skill?  It seems like it.  It seems like in practice or warmup he can shoot the lights out.  Has he done that in a game yet?  No.  He seems quick and can drive to the basket.  Can he finish at the rim?  He hasn't shown that yet.  Will he show that in the future?  I hope so.  It's just that he hasn't shown it yet.  It doesn't mean that I think he's a jerk or a bum - just that his ability to succeed in the A-10 has not been proven on the A-10 floor yet.  Same with Katuka.  Nice kid - some nice skills - hasn't put it together on the floor yet.  That's all I'm saying.  No one recruited since the article has SHOWN they can perform at a high level on the FLOOR where it matters.



2/15/2009 1:54:00 PM
Poster: cagwu

2008 A10 Record: 5-11.  This was playing in the 'top tier' of the A10.  H&H opponents (, URI, SLU).
2009 A10 Record: 1-9 (ongoing).  Generous KenPom anticipated finish of 3-13.  Now in the 'middle tier', H&H opponents (UNCC, UR, LSU).

A10 Conference KenPom Rating 2008: .7423  -  Rank: 8th
A10 Conference KenPom Rating 2009: .6396  -  Rank: 9th (ongoing)

Personnel changes:
- Moore, Beatty, Rice, Aleander (to an etent), Green, Gonsalves, Del Favero
Allbritton, Taylor, Ware, Alston, Conway

Coaching staff changes:
None (Hobbs said they went to some coaching camp in New England during the summer?)

My main frustration with this season is that, all things equal, we have empirically regressed.  The numbers speak for themselves but just in case:  GW nosedived from a strong finish last season on a tougher docket in a more competitive A10 without any major staff or personnel changes (with the eception of departing Rice, although, as he disappeared toward the end of last season, we appeared to improve).  How can the whole be worse than the previous sum of nearly identical parts?  Mismangement?  Fatigue? Personalities? Still 'Character'?  It makes those 'lack of eperience' soundbytes so contemptable.

Sorry, blame NYtimes Sunday magazine for my basketball-by-numbers mindset today.  If you haven't seen it, great article on basketball analytics and Shane Battier.  http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/magazine/15Battier-t.html?ref=magazine.  Made me miss Mike Hall all the more.

(all stats KenPom)


2/15/2009 2:24:00 PM
Poster: court

thinker,

It really seems like you have something against this Taylor kid personally.  If you check most of your posts about players, it is negative about him.  Did he do something to you?  He came into this program young and with high school eperience as well a trial by fire.  How long did it take our other guards older than he to developHe is not your typical 20 year old basketball freshman.  I have seen his parents at games, and you should tell them your personal problems with this kid.  He is a good player now and will be in future.




2/15/2009 3:19:00 PM
Poster: The MV

Please stop saying things like "sure Karl was a great recruiter at UCONN since he was at UCONN" and "KH isn't the recruiter he was made out to be."  Nobody epected KH to deliver UCONN-type talent to GW and if you did happen to think this, you're not very bright.  At UCONN, KH recruited some of the best players in the country.  At GW, KH recruited some of the best players to have ever played at GW.  So recruitingwise, KH is definitely the right guy.  The problem that some of you would like to conveniently ignore is that any good recruiter can quickly become a bad one when the pool of players you are interested in landing suddenly shrinks before your eyes.

Thinker, this issue is in part a JK issue but it also has to be a SJT and Chernak issue as well.  In fact, it was SJT who got the ball rolling with his reprehensible quote on how GW would never have recruited college graduate Omar Williams if it knew then what it knows now. 

As far as being critical of the athletic department, this all boils down to whether you feel their collective solution was proper or whether it was an overeaction.  In other words, could we have just stayed away from questionable prep schools and leave it at that, or did we have to go overboard and turn our backs on recruits from legitimate high schools who were/are considered academic risks (recruits who we would have easily gone after before the NYT and WAPO articles)?  Obviously, I subscribe to the former.



2/15/2009 7:08:00 PM
Poster: thinker

Court,

I have no problem with Tony Taylor.  He seems like a truly special kid.  From those I talk to that see him practice he has great talent.  This is not in ANY way about Tony Taylor being a great kid or potentially a great A-10 player.  I'll add several other things about Taylor - He came to GW at 17, by all accounts from a great family and a great school.  Hobbs has in the past relied on guards that were street tough and quite a bit older because they DIDN'T graduate from HS and went to prep school and HS for multiple etra years.  So when Carl Elliott or Mo Rice or JR Pinnock came here they were older and tougher.  It appears also that Taylor is such a good kid that he takes criticism to heart.  It seems that he is sensitive and that frankly he doesn't respond well to the intense yelling he gets from Hobbs at games.  He really is just a kid.  This is in no way a knock on him.  I think with the right handling he will turn into a legit elite level A-10 player.  He just hasn't shown it YET, that's all.  I'm not saying he sucks.  I don't think he does.  I think he is young and sensitive and physically not as strong as you need to be to be successful at this level.  Again no knock on him.  He just hasn't shown eliteness YET.  Don't mistake my comments on play as being comments on character.

MV,

I agree with you 100% that the recruiting limitations put on Hobbs were not all of JK's doing - maybe even not much of JK's doing.  SJT undercut Hobbs and everybody from the faculty senate on down threw Hobbs under the bus.  It was a shameful way to treat Hobbs and an even more shameful way to treat Omar.  It was disgraceful that the school didn't step up and make a much more forceful defense of Omar given that despite his shaky academic start - he had graduated on time from an academically oriented private university.  MANY people applauded John Thompson when he took Iverson OUT OF PRISON right to Georgetown and gave him a chance.  Omar's story wasn't as dramatic as that but frankly I think it's great that GW gave him a chance and he came through.  Good for Omar, I imagine it was a tough row for him to hoe and he should have been a poster child for academic redemption and second chances, not villified as a cheater not deserving of his second chance.



2/15/2009 11:22:00 PM
Poster: nasser

Thinker,

You're right on Montrell, he probably was too much of a headcase and he has not succeeded anywhere that he has gone.  It is fair to give you that one as a player who was going to leave.

As far as Miles goes, the guy did have some attitude problems and I have never traveled with GW basketball or been around the players day after day so I don't know what the dynamic was there.  Apparently he got in a fight with someone associated with the program in the airport and it came to blows but I really don't know.  I never did see him as some sort of star A-10 player but I do think he was an A-10 worthy player who could have filled an interesting role for our team.  He was not incredibly athletic but he played decent defense, took care of the ball, and had pretty good vision when it came to distributing the rock.  That's more than you can say for most of our players and I really think Miles could have been a great first or second guard off the bench.  You need to recruit more than stars, you also need to find guys willing to play certain roles.  Just because I think Miles could have been a good A-10 player doesn't mean I think he could have had the talent level of Rice, Carl, or JR.  You do need those role players.  I mean, look at some of the guards we have on our roster...we're very thin.

Some say that Beatty (and Moore for that matter) were simply dismissed because of grades.  Would this have happened if it wasn't for the WaPo article?  I don't think we will ever really know.

was going through a definite slump the whole time he was here but come on, it was the guy's first few months of adjusting to college ball.  I was willing to give him a raincheck for the whole year pretty much.  He'll be an interesting guy to follow in the future.


2/16/2009 10:18:00 AM
Poster: njspride

I had forgotten about that SJT quote, what a shame.

I don't know what the women's High School records look like, but I do know that their academic advisors are much more available and present than the men's team's. Omar, I think, is a shining eample of what GWU can do for someone who has not necessarily had the best academic eperience leading up to college, but has the capacity to work hard and accomplish what is necessary to get a degree.

Hobbs has 14 roster spots, and I think that he has the right to fill them with who he wants to. At the same time, The Director of Admissions, Chernak, President Knapp, and the faculty have the right to epect that those 14 spots at what is now a competitive university (just ask all the freshmen who have told us how much smarter they are than us) will use those academic seats in the class to work hard both on and off the court.

I had heard nothing but good thingsabout players in the classroom up until the 06-07 season, when certain players just checked out on all levels. That pattern of nonchalance in classes is reflected in a number of players today, which is too bad, because they aren't good enough to have that motif. I had a class with Rob Diggs, he was always there, he participated occassionally. I've heard Aaron Ware (I  think it's Ware) is eemplary in class, always prepared, always involved in class conversations.

When those things are happening, I think Hobbs gets leeway. But when playersaren't working hard to catch up and make the most of the academic opportunities presented to them, I think the Hobbs leash gets shorter and shorter.



2/16/2009 10:53:00 AM
Poster: The MV

Nasser, I think we have to take the definition of "not a legitimate A10 player" and apply it beyond basketball skills.  Miles Beatty is a perfect eample.  To be generous, Miles had major behavioral problems.  Miles was a starter on his high school team until his senior year when he came off the bench.  McCoy over Saracen on Friday Night Lights notwithstanding, this typically doesn't happen without an etraordinary reason.  In any case, it had to be perceived as a red flag regarding his recruitment.  (I'm not saying that he should NOT have been recruited; I won't play the hindsight is 20/20 game.  Just saying that there had to be a major concern going in.)  In any case, Miles's reported problems while at GW ranged from alcohol to assault of a female student. 

Miles was not a legitimate A10 prospect because of a lot of personal issues that he needs to deal with.  Let's hope he has begun this process.



2/16/2009 12:39:00 PM
Poster: Poog

Saracen scores the winning TD on a last play bootleg and McCoy gets the on the shoulders parade off the field. Fans sure are fickle.


2/17/2009 1:25:00 AM
Poster: Court

thinker,

I know tt pretty well, and what you are referring to is the fact that he has so many mied messages thrown at him.  It doesn't matter if he takes the criticism to heart or not, he doesn't have the correct balance in this situation.  He should be in a position to get frustrated.  So, yes he is a good kid. He does not just play in practice; again you epect tj or omar.  They didn't blossom in their first year.  I will accept what TT has done this year because he isn't epected to come in and be a star.  He was to follow in the footsteps of the current point, and learn.  In terms of his size, I think he is as tough as anyone on the team.  He doesn't shy away from going at the big guys.  That's what I wanted to see.  He finally is shooting more and it shows.  What do you call TT; not an a10 pg averaging 7 ppg or whatever?  I don't know, but this team needs a shot in the arm.  I said before, we have talent.  We need that player that doesn't give a shit and will tear off an opponents head to score.  We don't have him yet, but when we do let's hope it's infectious.  I don't care about stats.  The player on the court that gets the job done is what ecites me and gets me going.  We all want to see that, but just like TJ used to tell me, if we don't win no one cares how hard we play.  I will be at saturdays game..maybe in the blue seats or on the floor.  I just support this team and each player as much as I can.
court


2/17/2009 3:48:00 AM
Poster: Bigfan

From what we heard about Tony Taylor, he was a standout person in high school--and a good student.

He hasn't turned out to be what we hoped this year, though clearly has talent.  Don't think that should rest on his thn shoulders.

Having a rabid, psycho coach has likely screwed with his head as it has with the rest of the team. If TT isn't adapting to KH's style, and is a good kid inclined to listen, it's up to KH to shelve the hysterical screaming and distracting the team with his literally on the court presence. KH may want to, just once, try what works, rather than his preconceived notion of how things should be.

Hobbs, supposed to be a wizard with point guards,must bear this responsibility. Unfortunately, he accepts none with a grand total of one league win in mid-Febbruary.



2/17/2009 4:59:00 AM
Poster: Court

Well said BF!!  When you put the weight of the world on someone's shoulders and say we won't win if you don't play well.  That is pressure even for the most seasoned 21 year old typical gw basketball freshman.


2/18/2009 1:30:00 PM
Poster: elHake

Well said thinker - you've done a great job tracking the decline of GW ball - and I'll agree with (most of) you and blame a weak recruitment for our team's current suckiness.  I mean - presumably Hobbes is the same intense/hotheaded/misunderstood genius (you pick) coach he was during the #6 season - and lord knows we're still running the same "pass the ball around the outside and hope for something to open up inside" offense.  The difference is that this crop of players just isn't as good as Pops, Hall, Omar, etc were.

And thinker picks out why - the quality of our recruits fell because JK/SJT/Hobbes/whoever decided that we were only going to recruit from "legit" high schools.

But I think it's premature to start calls for Hobbes or JK's head because of this...

Instead, I think the ripple effects of the 2006 decision to drop a very promising class of recruits are why we're the bottom of the A-10.  Those guys would be juniors right now, and presumably had 2 solid years of development under their belts.  Ideally, they would have turned out pretty good, bought into Hobbe’s system, and we’d be sitting pretty.

 

Instead, we lose our recruits, and Hobbes has to rush to sign enough players to put up a roster.

 

I’m not by any stretch of the imagination a basketball coach, but I’d imagine that trying to recruit good players in early spring (after the Post article) is difficult (they're already committed) – and the ones that you do sign aren’t going to be as good.

 

So we get a cobbled together class of recruits for 2006: King, Hollis, Spoon, Opuku, and Moore.  Moore leaves before this season starts.

 

And in 2008/2009 of the original Class of ‘06: King gets injured, Opuku is clumsy, and ‘Spoon puts up stats well short of spectacular.  Hollis is the only standout, averaging 12 and 5.


What I think we're seeing now is the result of a crappy hand.  But there are good players who go to legit schools, and Hobbes has been somewhat successful at getting them to come to GW.   

 

A college basketball team takes time to develop.  Tony Taylor will grow up, Ware will find his game, and maybe, just maybe, Hobbes’ offensive scheme will sink in.



3/7/2009 7:02:00 PM
Poster: thinker

Perhaps time to re-read this thread.


3/7/2009 7:09:00 PM
Poster: Mentzinger

Definitely a classic, well-thought-out post, thinker. As usual.


11/22/2010 3:41:11 PM
Poster:

Maybe time to review this post from March of 2009.

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