http://twitter.com/TWTSports

 APR penalty: George Washington University loses a men's basketball scholarship.

http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/apr2008/249_2008_apr.pdf

"Limited to awarding 12 athletic scholarship renewals."

I'd like to take this opportunity to address Nasser's questions: No, this is not a legitimate mistake (on the part of the NCAA).  As Mentzinger points out, the departures do add up.  And yes, yes he is.

Don't know why USA Today's list is incomplete but I checked NCAA.org myself. GW did get hit.

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=49705

this is awful, not from the scholarship standpoint but the quality of the institution standpoint

I posted on another thread, a presumably sarcastic one about Karl Hobb's vacation activities, that nothing would surprise me about GW basketball any more.

Not even the most bizarre news. Reading the NCAA link, it appears to be true. Like the failure to schedule enough games, double scheduling of Appalachian State, a starter choosing to transfer in mid-season, star player dismissed a day before Senior Day, another starter and star this year mysteriously benched and too many other transgressions to name, no matter what: the most bizarre actions that at first glance seem to outrageous to be true, have become a staple of GW basketball.

You see a post about something unbelievable check the calendar to see if it is April Fool's day, figure, 'Nah, no one's that stupid or careless,' and then voila, something seemingly incomprehensible becomes true.

Herve may want to consider renaming the board GW's Believe It Or Not because Ripley's has nothing on the current leadership of the basketball program.

No penalty for players who don't graduate.

The criteria is based on the percentage of scholarship players who maintain their accademic standing while they are at that school.  If a player in good standing transfers out, no problem.  If he drops out midway through the semester to "go pro", problem.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content//article/2009/05/06/AR2009050603761.html

Thursday's Post account indicates GW had already self-imposed the penalty last year.

I have to disagree a bit with my friend Poog a bit on this one: before we look "forward" we need a clear eplanation from our Athletic Department as to how and why this happened, and what our Coach and Athletic Director are doing to deal with this situation. This is an embarrassment to our athletic program and to the Univesity as a whole; let's not try to pretend it is isn't. We are the only area D-1 men's basketball program to be penalized, and we are in the 20-30th percentile of all men's programs.

I have been attending  GW men's hoops games for over 40 consecutive years, am one of the few original Smith Center season ticket holders, and take pride in the program's past academic performance. For me to continue to support this program, I want to hear from Coach Hobbs what needed changes he plans that will improve our team's academic performance and graduation rate. We deserve no less.

regardless of the 's and o's on the court, the w's and l's on the court, and whether the coach and AD are secretive or open, this is a black eye of the worse kind.  For all who have "GWU" on their diploma, this hurts, it has cheapened our degrees.  Further, I do not see this as an AD issue, but rather VP issue.  There needs to be a discussion.   To try and sneak this by the fans and students by taking the hit last season like it was a parking ticket and saying "no big deal" hurts more.  In the I am  not sure I understand the rule department, the way I read the rules, it looks like a transfer does not hurt if he leaves in good standing.  I suspect that means that the  guys were not in the classroom, and some of the people we thought graduated, did not - remember, GW got hit on a historical score that did not include last season - this goes back to the earlier Hobbs era.

maybe it's me, but i think it was a great move to take the hit last season. why screw our recruiting and compund an already terrible year by sending out a press release telling the world that they are fuck-ups.?   

they certainly are fuck-ups.  but at least they played this one right tactically.

I just don't see this issue as being anything significantly more than turning GW into the butt of some jokes.  Very much the same way that the Terps program has developed a reputation for underachieving in the classroom.  Simultaneous to when these reports were initially produced ranking Maryland at or near the bottom of the ACC in this category, the University of Maryland was significantly upgrading their academic standards.  High school seniors who were slam dunks to be admitted suddenly lacked the credentials due to these upgrades.  So so I believe that this story cheapens my GW degree in any way?  None whatsoever.  Will my friends give me shit about this?  I'm counting on it.

The fact that the penalty was implemented last season certainly behooves the program but as others have pointed out, the fact that the program never released this information is sadly consistent with how this program operates.  I, too, was under the impression that Johnny Lee was a scholarship player last season strictly due to numbers.  The fact that he wasn't is very disappointing. 

As for the Rice Hall backlash, who knows?  Unfortunately, my take on this has just changed from "at least the worst is behind us" to "will Rice Hall allow this team to ever be competitive again under Hobbs?"

He guys couldnt sit back on this one. There is only so much a parent or coach can do. You can try your best to make a kid do right in school ,but the bottom line its up to the kid.If the kid doesnt want it ,usally its like beating a dead horse.

Anyway here is so privlaged  information for you guys to throw around. This one is not on the GW staff in anyway.They did all they could do to try and avoid this situation.

We had a kid transfer in from a BCS conference in 06-07 with two years of eligibilty. As far as  the classroom goes everyone thought  he was doing what was epected of him to honor his scholarship. There are guide lines a player must follow in order for the school to honor the scholarship. Its ehtics. Anyhow the staff found out this kid wasnt keeping up his end of the deal.Turns out he wasnt attending class and doing his work , and basically being disruptive to the whole team concept. He had already violated enoungh to lose his scholarship. However he was a senior and the staff had a heart. They were suppose to cancel his scholarship, but chose to let him get his degree out of kindness or sympathy.Who knows. Any how had they taking his scholarship we would not have lost one. So it was a catch 22.

Anyhow what had to be done ,was for two whole semesters. Someone on the coaching staff walked this kid to every class for the remainder of the school year. Just to make sure he went to class so he could graduate. Because that was one of his major problems.Just not going to class.

So to save the kid embarassment the school chose to keep it hush hush. Thats the reason it was kept a secret ,to spare the kid. And had they takin his scholarship the sactions would have been much greater from the NCAA. Because the kid would not have finished school and honored his agreement. Which is a much bigger slap in the face to the program. I know I am new here. However Hobbs is not always the bad guy. Not trying to step on any old timers toes.But I feel they did what was right in my eyes for the program. Just think if it was your kid>  What would you have wanted Hobbs to do???

KH was not hired to get GW on an NCAA "naughty" list. Quite to the contrary, he was brought in to ensure that the program not only was squeaky clean but that it did not even give off a hint of not being squeaky clean. W's and L's are secondary at GW, a top educational institution that charges out the yin-yang for the priviledge of studying here. So this sanction-- even if the school saw it coming and imposed its own penalty ahead of the NCAA's-- is unacceptable. PERIOD.

This is just more ammo in the hands of those who would chip away at the AD budget for other areas of the university, and I can't blame them for using it. No amount of NCAA banners is worth damaging the school's reputation. And it is too bad the school chose to make Johnny Lee the $50,000 victim here, no wonder he is looking elsewhere for grad school.

The net time the Hatchet talks to someone in the AD, this "incident" should be topic number one, number two and topic only. I don't care about the Smith Center renovations, net season's schedule or how good recruits look right now. I want to know WTF happened, how it happened and what is being done to make sure it never, ever, happens again.

Thank you for that insider information, Hooper.  I hope it is accurate.  I assume you "leaked" this information to the fan base with the blessing of the Athletic Department.  However, I cannot blame last years version of the Titanic on this one player.  It was a collective effort, from top to bottom, in my opinion.

Hooper: Blame the kid? Are you f-ing kidding me? Like the coaches or Jack have nothing to do with ensuring kids are complying with academic or legal requirements attached to their matriculating and receiving $250,000 in academic benefit, or that kids who won't shouldn't be on the team? This movie is so so boring. They've made it so the only thing to follow with this program is not wins, not who they're playing or who is suiting up, but what strange transgression of written or unwritten rules will come up net. What bad apple will be slipped in the back door? Is it Montrell or a more generic "e BCS" player? What "prep standout" will arrive without his HS diploma, and which one who has one -- and is deserving of a GW scholarship -- will disallowed because of "Hobbs Paranoia." This is old. Not just the impact on the floor, but the bad effects on kidswho come herte or are told they can come here and then are shown the door or cast out in a less-than-graceful manner. Thoroughly disgusting.

Am I missing something?  Isn't this supposed to only happen to schools competing for a National Title.  Total embarassment for the school.

There is more to this basketball program building shit , than you guys know. I respect you alls veiws and opinions. However from the outside things are perceived different than inside.

Its like going to war! There will always be collateral damage, and sometimes civillians dont understand the cruel realities of it.

I feel we are not doing to bad. Look at UConn, Indiana,Maryland just to name a few. We are not going at it in a cheating manner.We have just made bad character decisions. Noone really knows how a person really is until you have to live with them. If it was that easy, all of our past recruits would have panned out and been big hits. However they wasnt, because all aspects of evaluating isnt simple. (on court,off court and classroom) The basketball game changes from high school to college. So does the classrom,its way more challanging and it takes disipline to compete.Then the adjustment of all the freedom makes off court decisions harder too. A kid needs a strong family base and a sense of common judgement.(common sense) Things we may take for granted but some people lack. We all are products of our enviroment in some way or another.

And no I did not have the blessings of the AD department to leak this. I was just trying to make things better. By sharing alittle information with you guys. I am not on the inside ,I am a observer just like you guys. I got the info from a student .

hooper,

You just need to shut up because you are always starting  stuff on here. You dont know what you are talking about. That stuff you are saying is not true. So just keep the conspiracy theories to yourself. And just speak as a outsider..

GWAA contends that the top priority for a coach, "at a school like GW" , is to make sure his players are on track to graduate.  I'm not saying that KH does not see this as part of his job, but I think he sees his top priority is to win and build a successful program.  And, he would likely take eception to the phrasing "at a school like GW." 

Interesting that the player described as being a cancer on this year's team is the same player that was alleged to have ehibited an etremely untasteful anti-semetic act last summer.  This was also obviously the same player who was ineplicably (to most of us) benched for several consecutive games.  Very sad if this is all true.

Hooper:  We're not doing to[ sic] bad? Compared to what, the Titanic? We let kids in who did not go to an accredited high school. Recruits come and go so fast  we often don't even recognize their names. We can't win games and can't even make it into our league tournament much less a postseason tournament.  Players don't learn fundamentals, our newspaper and TV coverage is now less than Mason's and AU's, and now we've been hit with sanctions. The stands are emptying out.  I beg to differ!

Things could be worse, from Mental Floss: 4 Wildly Illegal College Recruiting Scandals

I just thought it was appropriate for today.

Thanks for chiming in Christian.  GW runs academic circles around Duke and Tufts?  Well, I don't think so.  In fact, I know so.

But be that as it may, GWAA, I knew eactly what you meant by your reference.  My point is that I do not believe that KH perceives things the way you are stating, and I'm not convinced that he should.  I'm convinced that Hobbs begins each season with the belief that if his players bought in to everything he was preaching and eecuted to the best of their abilities, that he could lead a team to a national championship at GW.  Now, that doesn't mean that if you asked him if he thought his team would win the championship, he'd say yes.  It simply means that his goal is to be the best of the best.  Does avier have the goal of winning a national championship each season?  How about Temple?  St. Joe's?  Well, we all play in the same conference so if these programs are driven to be the best, we had better be as well.

Again, to paraphrase, you said that a coach's top priority at a school like GW should be to make sure the players are on track to graduate.  Do you think that's Roy Williams' s top priority?  Is it Jim Calhoun's?  For that matter, is it Fran Dunphy's or Phil Martelli's top priority?  Please don't misunderstand...I know that KH cares deeply about academics and the value of an education.  What I am saying is that he sees himself as a competitive basketball coach first and foremost.  To those of you who are so troubled by this academic report, perhaps therein lies the problem.

Free Quebec,

First you must realize our sanction was self imposed. We took our own scholarship with the hope that it would satisfy the Ncaa , and it did. Actually we gave up to much,but fear of Ncaa retaliation made them offer the one scholarship. Howard only gave up a half ,which I feel would have been enough.But fear drives you to do more than normal. Anyhow,if we would have took the kids scholarship during the season.We would not have been able to control the situation.The Ncaa would have investigated the situation,even though our staff had did no wrong.However now the Ncaa can give any penilty it feels it wants.So basically we keep it in house.

Its kinda like ,you have a fight with your brother over a lady. Know one knows about the fight, but the lady leaves you both. A few months later you and your brother make up. And all is forgotten. Now the same situation occurs,but instead someone calls the police. The lady still leaves you both.And your brother and you make up. But now the court is involved.You want to drop the charges against your brother.But the state takes the case and continues it against your will. They convict your brother and gives him a sentence to jail. None of this happens if no one calls the police..

BTW, FQ

The bad apple was Cheyanne not Spoon, followed very closely by Miles Beatty - Remember the self-imposed sanction came after '07-08 - We just didn't know about it.  There was truly bad lockerroom chemistry that year that got everybody including Mo Rice caught in bad stuff - Probably was part of what sapped avier's desire to stay at GW, though he stuck it out for another semester.  That's why there was such dramatic and decisive action taken after '07-'08 - the situation had gotten REALLY bad.  I guess I would have to give props to JK (DID I JUST SAY THAT???) for giving up a scholarship when he didn't HAVE to and he didn't have a player to give it to (ecept Johnny) as an innoculation against something worse.

If Hobbs really wanted to open up about how different players behaved most people would be more sympathetic to his position.  Hobbs is a bit old school and isn't going to talk about things that happen in the lockerroom - even if it makes him look better.

And understand I don't have ANY history of being a defender or apologist for Hobbs or JK.  But I strongly believe my account above is accurate.

thinker,

Your comment  holds alot of merit. You are absoultly on the right track.  That is what started the snowballin effect. Which in turn rubbed to 'Spoon. And had sent our team into a tail spin.

FU.

This is a great venue and I enjoy the games and the AD club.

Hope everyone agrees.

This is really resembling the Pender years, ecept for the criminal behavior. Chaos and scandal and shortcuts on academics without winning. Although I believe the aptly named TP managed to at least struggle to .500 or near, unlike the previous two years.

Remember all the hoopla about KH's hiring? I remember his first priority as noted on the board was bringing academics and control and a certain kind of player.  Personally remember emphasizing that point to him and how important that was, even in contrast to winning.

Mentz and Maypoman makes good points about this (and everyone is having a reasoned discussion and contributing their perspective, thankfully). In this case, what saved us was the total lack of competence by any normal standards by not having our full quota of scholarships filled. Guess we could have stood to have been sanctioned a few games last year as well, no problem.

Oddly, this stuff seems be hitting seniors the hardest. So is it being covered up until the last possible minute, or is it some problem the coach has communicating or winning the confidence of the players?

As for the argument that we can't win with players who go to class, our two players in the Hobbs era who have played in the NBA during the regular season are Pops and Mike, both high intellects and good students who graduated. And Pops could have certainly declared for the draft early.

So that answers the question of whether we can find players who can handle both the rigors of going to college with an incredibly etensive support system that other students or even teams at GW don't have --and still perform on the basketball court.

Being sanctioned for academics is humiliating for any university. For a school with an academic reputation like GW and a basketball record such as we do, it is particular unusual (did someone say we were the only D-1 school?) and an even more distressing system of a team that has imploded under a coach who can't handle things.

No one roots for GW any harder any than I do, but we also have to face reality. KH is the coach and we want to look forward to net year. But it's often the case that you don't know how you can get where you want to go without eamining what factors brought you to where you are.

Hooper,

Did someone in the Athletic Dept or on the team tell you that story about the "bad apple"?  If so, they're selling you a line. 

It could not have been "one bad apple".  THe NCAA rules on maintaining good accademic standing/progress towards graduation is a semester to semester evaluation of the entire team on a rolling 4 year basis.  A team that fails to achieve a minimum of 60% success rate for the entire team is subject to NCAA penalties. 

60% of the team. That means that GW has had to have and average of 4-5 players each year fall behind in their accademic progress.  That's a sestemic problem, not a 1 or 2 player situation.  To present this as a Moore/Witherspoon problem is clearly misleading.

Just for contet, here are some of the "name" schools forfeiting men's basketball scholarships:

Auburn

Georgia Tech

Georgia State

Indiana

Ohio State

Colorado

South Carolina

Tennessee

So we are not alone. 

I understand what happened and I am not concerned about it unless the trend continues. Shit happens. Hardly anyone pays attention to this stuff ecept here. And for all you crying academics, anybody over about 35 went to an inferior GW than eists today. GW in the 70s and 80s was a well-known backup school for kids from the NE with cash. So let's not talk about how your degree has been diminished because overall the current GW has helped you not hurt you, this event notwithstanding. Let's not make this more than it is in the bigger picture. For now, it has no greater meaning other than we lost a scholarship.

I am not an apologist for anyone associated with GW basketball.  The things I've posted here over time, I've believed to be true.  I agree that the set up at GW makes it a less than ideal place for a coach like Hobbs.  There were many times during the season last year that I stated my view that Hobbs couldn't win with the kind of kids he was allowed to recruit.  I have been steadfast in my view that JK has mismanaged the program and I thought GW would be better off with him gone.  Having said that, apparently Hobbs is staying for at least another year so I'm hoping that his freshman perform and the team shows real improvement.  There seems to be no chance that JK is leaving soon.

I also think that Hobbs is a very comple person and often is his own worst enemy particularly when it comes to communicating with the media/fans/alumni etc.  I know, at the same time, that people love to oversimplify things and the precipitous drop by GW basketball is actually a pretty complicated phenomenon.  Message boards are places where commentators say is obviously because of Y - case closed.  Then the argument ensues between people who hold opposite views and then each side uses oversimplified eaggerated etreme positions to make their case.

So, notwithstanding that I don't think that Hobbs is a very good fit for GW in the entirety of GW's diverse alumni, student and administrative culture, here are some things that I believe are absolutely true:

1) Hobbs really cares about the success of the kids he recruits;

2) Hobbs is a bit of a one dimensional coach - his style of coaching and the type of play he needs to win require the kinds of players who are long, athletic, tough, and smart.

3) It's not very easy to get those kinds of kids to come to GW because the kids with those attributes and without some corresponding flaw can go to high major schools and almost universally do so.

4) Omargate really changed the equation for Hobbs and he started pressing to keep it going - needing to take increasingly bigger chances.  Mind you he had to take big chances before too - Omar, Elliott, Rice, JR, Montrell were all risky recruits among others. 

5) A team with Pops and Mike on it could control the knuckle headed kids of today's environment.  A team with Elliott on it could control things too.  A team with ALL knuckle heads or lots of them with no player who was a leader could not keep things in check. I have heard credible stories about the amazing knuckle headedness of some our GW's recent failures as players.  INCREDIBLE stories.

6) Hobbs doesn't deserve a pass for all of this - he recruited the kids and he coached them.  But I think he truly underestimated how his system REQUIRED strong leader(s) among the players.  The last two teams had more talent than wins.  I think that quality of personality of a HS player is VERY tough to project into college.  I think maybe if Hobbs had gotten lucky with just one or two players in the last two years instead of being mostly unlucky, maybe things would have turned out very differently.  Maybe Travis might have become that kind of player if he hadn't gotten hurt - I don't know.

7) I think Aaron Ware is the first kid Hobbs has gotten to GW that might have the kind of toughness and leadership ability of the aforementioned players since Elliott.  Whether this turns out to be true or not will be seen - but as a freshman he wasn't in a position to definitively show it. 

8) As a general proposition when comple operations start to trend badly, it takes a long time to turn things around and some of the repercussions of the bad times don't manifest until much later.  What we are seeing slowly unfold is, i think, the result of a bad trend that has finally played itself out.  After a long time on the downtrend, I think there are no "difficult' players returning from last year.  IF and that's a truly big if, Hobbs got 3 or 4 pretty good players of the 6 with 1 or 2 tough leaders, and no "bad" kids, then i think that we could see a pretty fast turnaround.

Now all can have at me. 

FQ,

I think hooper is referring to Spoon as the kid who had to be walked to class.  Cheyanne was a senior when he left, though he had a year of elligibility left, having transferred from Clemson and sat out a year.  Remember, the scholarship given up was AFTER '07-'08 not this past year - so a few things are jumbled up.  I'm pretty confident that the true genesis of the downfall was the departure of Elliott, leaving Rice, Cheyanne, and Beatty to truly screw up team chemistry while King - the only possible leader was on crutches.  That screwed up team pretty surely cost us Wesley Witherspoon, which probably made big Spoon unhappy, and avier ready to go too - though he stayed a semester longer.

Thinker has a well-reasoned argument, though one really needs to look at the coach's role in all of this. He is paid an amazing amount of money on the outside world for what he does, or in this case, doesn't do.

  Thinker: what are the incredible stories you have heard? Perhaps that would give us some perspective if we knew what went on.

Bigfan,

Nothing I said is meant to give Hobbs a pass.  It's to give some deeper contet.  Hobbs isn't all good or all bad.  He made and makes plenty of mistakes and he has a number of personality characteristics that really hamper his success.  He is paid a lot of money and he must be accountable for his part.  People just don't hear about or know about much of the rest of the parts that hinder GW's success.  Again, given the support, facilities, and resources that Hobbs receives overall, plus his personality make him not the best fit for GW.  Again, though, some of the problems aren't  Hobbs' fault.

Today's kids are different; the AAU culture makes things a lot harder; the epectations of fans are a lot higher.

Maryland - with absolute premier facilites and a HUGE fanbase - has been faltering for years now.  Gary has been killed by his recruiting class of McCray, Kick Caner-Medley and Gilchrist.  Gary took Gilchrist instead of a kid who really wanted to go to Maryland by the name of Deron Williams.  Gilchrist was a top naitonal player - Gary just misjudged and his team got crushed because of it.  Georgetown with the same REALLY faltered last year - much also due to bad team chemistry that evolved when Jeff Green and Hibbert left and DaJuan Summers was their lockerroom cancer.  JTIII has made some significant mistakes and it's showing in their now seeming inability to recruit the same top players they got a few years ago.  Look at how many kids have left GTown - Omar Wattad being the latest.  JTII recruits over his players and now top players don't want to go there.  Shit JTIII ran Doc Rivers' son off the team - how much does that mistake hurt GTown?  George Mason, with its very nice facilites and a GREAT coach adn an administration that seemed to do everything it could to take advantage of the team's once in a lifetime run to the Final Four still missed the NCAAs last year.  Kentucky ran off Tubby and then Gillespie.  This is to say that putting together a winning team year aftr year is net too impossible for almost any team - you make a few mistakes on a few players, have a few bad breaks and you're down for a while.  GW has so much less margin for error than lots of schools, so its mistakes are magnified in their impact.

And I think I've revealed plenty of details.  Your curiosity for more details is understandable, but knowing every detail of every private matter relating to these kids isn't appropriate.  I want to know all the gorey details too, so I'm no different.  We all want to know everything and some things are unecessarily embarrasing and hurtful to the kids.  I also am told things that I'm asked not to reveal, so I try to always honor my friends' requests for discretion.

Nice job, thinker.

No one is really arguing for us to be the Duke of DC, even though that's a perfectly good model (they dont have facilities that far in ecess of ours, and they have arguably greater limitations on admissions and character, especially in light of what happened in the lacrosse program there recently.) If you recall, SJT also invoked that school and Stanford in media interviews as models for how he saw GW evolving as an athletic program. In short, the bipolar nature of our athletic program is a straw man: You don't have to recruit EITHER athletes OR great kids to win. Though that's certainly the way KH has run the program. Just look at the rosters over his tenure, and the massive upheavels of all of them post 05-06.

No one even really believes the rules for coaches are clearly articulated, or even consistent. They let KH recruit fake prep schools, didnt rein him in until it blew up, then probably never gave him an alternate roadmap, or at least one that was specific enough. If they did, then he responded by spending a year or two recruiting choir boys, literally, as a kind of petulant revenge we all know he is capable of yet are surprised he is allowed to get away with.

If you want to win, and I believe JK does, but then don't set out an articulable road map, you can't really lay blame when the coach goes bad. This is probably why KH has not been shown the door: 1) There is enough blame to go around about the eact direction the program need to go in order to obtain success. 2) The buyout was too big (though not that big by compariosn to, say, the net operating income of GW's massive commercial real estate portfolio). This also probably summarizes the Tom Penders story, including the bad ending that included a high payout and no real discipline.

It's a program of aversion and sleight of hand. It's been that way through at least two coaches now. And there's one common element. And you know what -- or who it is.

I think that Mentz has nailed it.  There is a clear dividing line at the top and these mied messages have tricked down to the very core of the program.  On the left, we have Dr. Chernak and JK.  They are basketball guys.  They attend every game.  The laundry list of criticisms about JK is a mile long but don't question his desire to see this program succeed in a big way.  They are like two older brothers advising their younger brother (KH) to go ahead and do something risky as long as mom and dad don't catch him.  Sure, they'd ideally like to do everything the right way.  But, they're more than OK looking the other way as long as the results justify the means and that nobody gets caught.  Then, on the right, we have Dr. Knapp and the higher-ups at Rice Hall.  To them, a winning program is a bonus but this is far outweighed by the need to bring in solid citizens, character guys, guys who are students first in the student-athlete equation.  When players prematurely leave the program and an academic standing report casts GW in a negative light, Rice Hall is ready to hand out a punishment.  Prior to Omargate, the team was winning and there wasn't any public scrutiny of the program.  So back then, Dr. Chernak and JK were running the show.

What is long overdue is for EVERYONE to get on the same page.  Do we want a program that resembles a competitive A10 school or a Patriot League school?  Do we want a program where it truly doesn't matter whether the team annually qualifies for its own conference tournament as long as the team's players stay 4 years, graduate, and make us all proud?  Or, would we rather eperience pride through the on-court accomplishments of a highly successful program?  This is a very basic philosophical decision that needs to be addressed.  Short of this, the prevailing sentiment is that those who direct this program want to have their cake and eat it too.  While this sounds great "on paper", the reality is that this isn't practical at a school like GW.

In order, multi-year APR basketball-only (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=49714):

Dayton 979
http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/apr2008/175_2008_apr.pdf

avier 976
http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/apr2008/812_2008_apr.pdf

Charlotte 960
http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/apr2008/458_2008_apr.pdf

LaSalle 956
http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/apr2008/340_2008_apr.pdf

Fordham 947
http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/apr2008/236_2008_apr.pdf

St. Louis 947
http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/apr2008/609_2008_apr.pdf

St. Joe's 944
http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/apr2008/606_2008_apr.pdf

Rhode Island 941
http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/apr2008/572_2008_apr.pdf

Temple 938
http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/apr2008/690_2008_apr.pdf

Richmond 936
http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/apr2008/575_2008_apr.pdf

UMass 931
http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/apr2008/400_2008_apr.pdf

George Washington 917
http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/apr2008/249_2008_apr.pdf

Duquesne 906
http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/apr2008/194_2008_apr.pdf

St. Bonnie 904
http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/apr2008/606_2008_apr.pdf

OTHERS FOR REFERENCE PURPOSES:

Yale 996
http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/apr2008/813_2008_apr.pdf

Harvard 995
http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/apr2008/275_2008_apr.pdf

Duke 989
http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/apr2008/193_2008_apr.pdf

Tulane 977
http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/apr2008/718_2008_apr.pdf

Hofstra 969
http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/apr2008/283_2008_apr.pdf

Stanford 968
http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/apr2008/674_2008_apr.pdf

Memphis 953
http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/apr2008/404_2008_apr.pdf

UNLV 920
http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/apr2008/465_2008_apr.pdf

Maryland 912
http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/apr2008/392_2008_apr.pdf

Mentz and MV,

Both of you have added great points.  Absolutely Hobbs has not benefited from good leadership, direction and mentorship from above.  Having spent a great deal of time with SJT, I can positively assure everyone that he had lost 3/4 of his marbles by the time he left.  He would have sent consistently swirling mied messages because he was - well - crazy, particularly in the last few years of his tenure.  I think a lot of the anger that we see in Hobbs is a result of this phenomenon described so well by you two.  Hobbs feels like he's been told one thing, succeeded, had the rules changed on him, failed, and has been unfairly blamed for carrying out a school mandated plan that COULD NOT work, and yet he's the fall guy.  Now I'm not saying that I buy that entirely, but I am saying that I really think HE thinks that.  His petulance about the situation just makes him a far less sympathetic figure for those of us who don't know what's really going on inside.  I regularly speak to several people who are VERY inside of different parts of the program and I have never been able to get even a TINY sense of what type of recruiting restrictions were placed on Hobbs though everyone agrees that obviously restrictions were put in place.  At the same time, it's quite obvious that something changed because all of a sudden for fall '09 Hobbs was recruiting more of the old style players again.  I have never gotten any notion of what Hobbs understood he was supposed to do or how it was communicated to him.

An additional point that I've neglected to mention and we shouldn't forget - HOBBS HAS NEVER BEEN CHARGED WITH A RECRUITING VIOLATION (to my knowledge).  Yes his recruits have failed in other ways and that is undeniable and unfortunate.  But even the risky recruits - even the ones with phony diplomas - were properly cleared by the NCAA, so I do believe that he works hard to abide by the rules.  Hobbs is clearly not perfect and hurts his case in many ways but I don't think he is a bad person or malintentioned as a coach.  He follows the rules as he understands them and no one would dispute that it is more challenging to recruit with the crappy facilities that we've had.

Again, I don't think that Hobbs is a good fit for GW, but he's staying here for at least another year and so I hope he succeeds this year and gets on another run.

Mentz,

That shouldn't be that surprising.  "Bad" kids, unhappy kids, etc. transfer, get kicked out, drop out etc.  By definition these players will also be more disruptive to the team on the court.  Kids who are playing and are happy, are more likely to epend the effort to keep their grades up so they can continue playing.  It makes perfect sense.

And another thing - have you noticed that almost all of our players who do graduate, get a degree in sociology?  What up with that? 

Fortunately it appeared in an unread publication:

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/may/07/apr-score-costs-gw-a-basketball-scholarship/

GW Frosh:

I suspect that anyone who has time enough to read 70 prior messages and post the 71st -- i.e., you -- has too much time on his hands and probably shouldn't be casting aspersions on others. Besides, it's finals time. Instead of wasting your time on this board, you might want to consider hitting the books.

GW Frosh isn't far from the mark. Some of you post so much on the same topic that you just must love to hear to the sound of your own voice. Put in modern parlance (thanks to my african-american and jewish relatives) we got us a collection of e-thugs and e-yentas here. So while you all are either  thuggin or being yentas here maybe you could give some us a break by at least not repeating the very same points 10 times in one thread. Some of us are really smart enought to get it the first time around.

P.S. I want to know what Thinker, Mentzinger and MV do for a living because it seems like they post 24/7. We all need a job/career like that.

Levinator says, "this thread get s a "

While Chernak made some statements to the Hatchet that show there's at least an attempt to accept responsibility and recalibrate the way things are done, there's just too much ecuse-making BS coming out of GW for my liking.  The quote in the Washington Times, from the press release, is typical GW garbage.  "It's due to attrition."  Yeah, and when people die, in most cases their heart stopped.  Similar is Kvancz's quote in the Hatchet about it not being due to academics.  No, it's perfectly satisfactory to have players thrown off the team for disciplinary reasons, or have a star senior suspended and then thrown off the team right before the end of his career, for whatever reason.  Or if Beatty was, as some have asserted, going around beating people up, we won't count that if he had the right GPA at the time.  We can compartmentalize with the best of them! 

But hey, donate money for our spanking rebuilt gym because we got it under control.

I also liked Chernak's statement to the Hatchet that from now on, players shouldn't be tossed without substantial documentation.  Ecellent idea Bob.  Welcome to the 21st century.  So does that mean that, for eample, Hobbs wrote on an inde card, This guy Rice, he needs to be gone? 

GW Frosh:  Does your poster name become GW Soph net year?  This assumes of course, perhaps erroneously, that you pass all of your classes.  Seneca, I'm not going to share with you how I earn a living, but let's just leave it by saying that my real name is Manny and for the net 2 months, I'm going to have more free time to post than ever before.

Alumnus,

It's not just the cavalier attitute of the AD and GW administration regarding this scholarship penatly that I question but it's accuracy.  They say it's mostly due to attrition and not due to academics.  Is that true?

According to the NCAA: Scholarship athletes can earn as many as four points in a year -- one for each semester as a full-time student or for graduation, and another for maintaining eligibility for both semesters. Each program's score is computed by dividing the points team members earn by the points available and multiplying the total by 1,000

Players who transferred out or went pro:  JR. Pinnock, Ricky Lucas, Montrell McDonald, Miles Beatty, Cheyenne Moore, Jarron Greene.   Maureece Rice was kicked off the team before the last game of the season but was still enrolled at GW and should have counted if he was academically on pace.  Tamal Forchion, Jaz Cowan and Lafante Johnston were on the 2003-2004 team and shouldn't count in this 4 year window.

So that's 6 players (7 including Rice) who didn't finsh their accademic carreers at GW over 4 years.  If they left after the end of the season and remained academically for that season they would have earned 3 out of 4 possible points.  The other players would have earned 4 out of 4 points.  The NCAA said the goal is at least 60% on pace to graduate/stay academically eligible.  If there are on average 12 scholarship players each year (48 possible eligible players over 4 years), than those 6 players leaving would not put GW in the penalty. 

THERE HAS TO BE AN ACADEMIC ISSUE INVOLVE HERE AS WELL.  The math just doesn't work otherwise.  It's bad policy for the AD and administration to try to give a false impression on the facts of this matter.  They should just come clean and give a accurate discreption on what happened (home many points were lost due to lack of retention and how many were lost due to lack of academic eligibility.  No names would ever be given out.  They should also spell out how their systems have been improved to try to be sure that this problem does not continue.

Is that too much to ask?

Bobo...add Jermaine Middleton to your list.

I wasn't sure about Middleton since he was never elligible to play for GW (sat out the only year on the team).  Even so the number still don't add up. 

But if you assume that all of the departing players also became academically ineligable, then we get closer to where GW wound up on their scorecard:

If the averaged 11.5 scholarships/year and the total points/player is 4 than the total points available is 184 over four years.  If the  players departing also failed in the classroom in the 2nd semester than that's 14 points off (1 more for Middleton who we assume was OK academically).   169 points earned/184 points eligible = 0.918 (1000) = 918.  GW's actual score was 917. 

Only answer is a combination of academics and departures.