By: BC (1,645 posts) - 5/27/2015 8:02:53 PM


By: ziik (2,950 posts) - 5/27/2015 8:47:33 PM

He's still only 5'11" Can they feed him?

By: thinker (2,825 posts) - 5/27/2015 10:03:14 PM

"stretch the defense with his outside shooting and gives us another strong ballhandler."

I am SOOOOOOO confused is he a point guard or a shooting guard????? He obviously has to be one or the other. Asking for a friend.

By: THE DUDE (529 posts) - 5/27/2015 10:49:41 PM

I like Mitola, I was the loudest supporter here having watched him play many times.  He's a good shooter, and a much better athlete than you might think.  But if you think at 5'11 he's going to play starting 2 Guard minutes you are nuts.  He's the replacement for Nick Griffin, not Kethan Savage - a 3pt specialist.  Even playing in the Ivy,  he shot 30 something % on his 2's, this is not Russ Smith.

Alex is a 5'11 shooter and his role on GW will be depth, not "the two guard."  Nick is bigger stronger and he couldn't defend, Mitola is going to have the same trouble defensively and offensively around the rim as NG- he's here to hit some open 3's, that's his role.



By: thinker (2,825 posts) - 5/27/2015 11:31:27 PM

In your previous analysis all players had to have a position. So what's Mitola's position? And position doesn't include starting or off the bench - that's the type of role he'll play. What situations he's used in - role, If he's the replacement for Nick - who was a shooting guard in your view - then is he a shooting guard also? Is Mitola a shooting guard or a point guard?

By: THE DUDE (529 posts) - 5/27/2015 11:43:53 PM

Haha you're getting bogged down over semantics, there's more nuance than your questions would suggest.  In this case there's 1 question to be answered, can Mitola handle well enough to bring the ball up against some A10 level ball pressure. If so, he might get a few minutes spelling Joe at the Point.  That would basically only happen IF:

1) He can handle the point against A10 ball quality on ball pressure

2) He beats out Jordan Roland for that role.  IF not, he's not going to be on the court very much and will relegated to only the Nick Griffin a few minutes a night/hit some open 3's bench scoring.  That's a role that Matt Hart would like, so even in that role there will be a little competition.


By: Long Suffering Fan (4,106 posts) - 5/28/2015 12:27:09 AM

He didn't transfer to GW and ML didn't recruit him at both Vermont and GW to play 6-10 minutes per game.    His position is clearly point...having a point who can shoot the 3 will extend the defense...but he is still a point.  Obviously ML likes him and I trust that we will help.  He is certainly not Kethan, but he should be the best or second best player off of the bench.

By: thinker (2,825 posts) - 5/28/2015 12:52:05 AM

Seriously, nuance is my thing. Your thing is making nonsensical blanket statements. 

Your argument is actually what I've been saying for awhile - That there are a bunch of players who will have a chance to fill out various roles in a way yet to be determined and which I believe will allow us to be a good team next year.

You're the one that said Mitola can't be an option at "shooting guard" because he's only 5'11". Yet if he fills the Nick "role: I guess he has to be a shooting guard because everyone, in your world, only has one" position." So is Mitola a shooting guard or a point guard. Just answer that question.

By: THE DUDE (529 posts) - 5/28/2015 12:56:29 AM

Lets presume the most likely starting lineup (presuming no more transfers and none of the rising Sophs make a giant leap up like Swan or Cimino or PJ)  Starting 5: Joe/Pato/Yuta/TC/Kevin

For guard depth, don't forget the man to beat out is Paul (who I've said is destined for the scoring punch of bench role but others here think he's the future PG) We have a gaping hole at the prototypical two guard spot, but a lot of candidates for Guard Depth.   So for Mitola to get big minutes, he'd have to first beat out PJ and Roland (and Hart) and/or ML plays a ton of two tiny guards in his backcourt (another opinion espoused by some here, that I don't share as likely)  I'd say 10 minutes a night would actually be a high estimate - the guy is 5'11.

By: thinker (2,825 posts) - 5/28/2015 1:58:21 AM

LSF, just FYI this is a running issue that I have with Dudelaimon so there is more to this discussion than is visible in just this thread. My sterner tone is directed at him not you.

Role is a very different thing than position. Matching the proper role to the proper player is one of the most important things that a coach does in practice and then during the season. In my heart I believe with great conviction that ML is not going to be altogether that caught up with what "position" his different players play. He's interested in who can shoot, play defense, handle the ball, rebound. etc.

If Mitola can get open and hit shots when playing with JoeMac or Paul - then shucks I guess he's a shooting guard. If he play with those same guys and they can get open and make shots then shucks I guess he's a point guard. What if sometimes they pass to him and he shoots and scores and sometimes he passes to them and they shoot and score? What position is he then?

What matters is who can play and what combinations of players work together best not what position you call them.

But Dude only uses the nuance argument to refute a nuanced argument made against his blanket statements that generally start our delightful interactions. So Dude just tell me what everyone's position is and how we can tell. Answer the question I've asked you five times - when Savage got benched and Yuta and Garino played together who was the "shooting guard" and who was the "small forward?"


By: herve (9,159 posts) - 5/28/2015 6:15:33 AM

Shwoo! I was thinking this might turn into a discussion of Mitola's role! Thank goodness it hasn't! Just more impetus to finish the "ignore" function.

By: Pops (505 posts) - 5/28/2015 6:36:12 AM

I've only skimmed much of this thread but like LSF would like to insert my opinion.  It sounds as though Minolta will be the 3rd guard.  I would expect the top 3 guards to see close to equal minutes. Griffin never rose to that level.  We are fortunate to have 3 guards who can handle the point and shoot.

i would hope one of the others steps into griffins role as pure shooter

By: Long Suffering Fan (4,106 posts) - 5/28/2015 7:59:44 AM

In terms of blurring positions on the Court, for 3 years, Kevin has been listed and announced as a forward, however, at least by my way of seeing things, he is probably the most traditional center we have had a GW probably since Sasha. C'mon, 6' 10" 260 pounds who plays with his back to the basket and has great low post moves, if that isn't a center, I am not sure who is.   Not quite sure how or why they refer to Kevin as a forward, but it has always bothered me a bit.  

By: Mentzinger (3,646 posts) - 5/28/2015 9:49:11 AM

I'm seeing Mitola as Prince Harry but without the game. Very puzzling.

By: Mentzinger (3,646 posts) - 5/28/2015 10:19:34 AM

I'm seeing Mitola as Prince Harry but without the game. Very puzzling.

By: Rich Maier (17 posts) - 5/28/2015 10:50:24 AM

Mitola shot .857 form the line playing for Dartmouth. GW has long been struggling with FT shooting so i'd like to see him in the final minutes of a tight game if he is a player. 

By: The MV (4,915 posts) - 5/28/2015 11:21:03 AM

Both Nemanja Mikic and Nick Griffin are great shooters.  Very pure shooters.  Yet both would have to be considered disappointments.  The primary reason for this was that each was essentially a one-dimensional player.  Lord knows that ML tried to get more from Nemanja but his rebounding and defense, while a bit improved over time, did not come close to allowing him to be a major contributor.  Nick's ball handling and defense were subpar for a player his size.

The quality of players and coaches in the A10 had much to do with this.  One dimensional players are easily scouted and solved at this level.

So for Alex, it will boil down to how much more can he provide beyond being a designated three point shooter.  Can he drive and score?  Can he drive and dish?  Can he pump fake from 3, take a few steps in, and nail a jump shot?  Can he hold his own on defense?  And even if he could do all of these things at Dartmouth, will he be able to against A10 competition?

By: thinker (2,825 posts) - 5/28/2015 12:29:38 PM


I think they're loose with the position designations because I don't they they matter much any more. Last year JoeMac, Savage, and Paul regularly switched between who was the primary ballhandler and who was the "shooter" at any given point in the game. You could easily justify saying that any of those three were the 1 or the 2 at any given moment.

When Kevlar went to the bench for a breather, Kopriva switched into his spot and Garino or Yuta switched into Kopriva's spot as it were. When Savage was benched he was replaced with Yuta. In various lineups you could easily argue that Yuta was the 2,3, or 4.

In the flex offense which we run some of the time, all the players rotate through different positions on the floor trying to create open shots and mismatches. We saw a lot more of Kevlar moving away from the basket and taking a lot more longer shots - even 3's. In this offense we also see a lot of JoeMac postng up guys near the basket.

The point is that ML or most any coach is going to try and get the best set of skills and attributes on the floor as he can. If Mitola can play off the ball and successfully shoot sharing the court with JoeMac or Paul then that's what they'll do - even if he's only 5'11". A lot of people want GW to sign Peanut's kid who is 5'3" which isn't exactly ideal size for his position - but if he can play then you work him in.

The NBA Wizards have no real difference between what a 2 or 3 does. When Gortat and Nene are in the lineup together there's no real difference in what they are asked to do structurally - obviously they have different skill sets.

And it's always the case that on defense you're going to match up in a way that's designed to be most effective without regard to "position."

By: The MV (4,915 posts) - 5/28/2015 12:52:00 PM

LSF, I can't recall specifics, but my memory seems to recall about 15 years ago when Shaq was dominating the NBA and a lot of the great traditional centers were retired or soon to be retired (Ewing, Olajuwon), a number of tall but far weaker players spoke about not wanting to be referred to as a center due to the inevitable comparisons that would not work in their favor.  Guys like Karl Malone (when Eaton wasn't in the game) or Christian Laettner or Kevin Garnett may very well have played the center position but never wanted to be regarded as a center.  You could just hear them saying something like "Shaq is a center, but I'm not a center."

By: Long Suffering Fan (4,106 posts) - 5/28/2015 1:39:04 PM

No big deal or anything, but I just thought it curious to refer to Kevin, an obvious center in my opinion, as a forward  Of course it doesn't make a difference (a rose by any other name...), but the roster and announcer seem to have the need to label everyone as a "guard", "forward" or "center", and it being off season with nothing to talk about until the start of the Kenner League in a few weeks...  It is interesting how the game has evolved over the decades.  Teams use to be build around a big, strong center (the aircraft carrier, as Al McGuire used to call them).   Now the position is almost obsolete. 

By: CH (142 posts) - 5/28/2015 1:45:51 PM

If he's the ball handler/shooter it sounds like he could be, I like him playing alongside Joe or Paul against certain teams for an extra ball handling and shooting punch.

Think about it, out of the Joe, Yuta, Paul, Mitola group, you are always going to have at least 2 of them on the floor, which makes us a much better shooting team than last year.  Mix in TC as a stretch-4, and there is a lot of space for Garino and Larsen to work.  Bounce back years!

By: Free Quebec (6,340 posts) - 5/28/2015 2:16:45 PM

The starting 5 will be Joe, Yuta, Pato, Cavanaugh, and KevLar.   Prince Harry is the 6th man.

Then, there will be competition in practice for bench guard minutes between Mitola, Hart, and Roland. That'll be good for the program no matter who wins the battle.

By: BACCAS92 (705 posts) - 5/28/2015 2:21:51 PM

"But if you think at 5'11 he's going to play starting 2 Guard minutes you are nuts".


You mean like a 5 foot 3 Inch Point Guard that is the son of one our best players ever?  


By: THE DUDE (529 posts) - 5/28/2015 2:32:07 PM

FQ's starting 5, I believe that's almost certainly the 5, barring a sudden unexpected meteoric rise from someone or injury.  With PJ almost surely the first guy off the bench you can see how getting more than 10 minutes a night for Mitola would be tough. 

Last year Paul in a less crowded backcourt depth situation played only 10mins a night himself.  To date ML has played his starters 30-33 mins a night. 

By: The MV (4,915 posts) - 5/28/2015 3:16:30 PM

Different year Dude.  Last year, Paul and Yuta were all ML could trust coming off the bench.  Lonergan doesn't want to play essentially 7 players.  So, if at least three players among Matt C., Anthony, Jordan, Alex, Collin, and Matt H. can truly earn the trust of ML and staff, then we've become at least 9 deep.  Kevin in particular looked like he could have used some more rest last saeson.  Hopefully, he gets it this year and becomes even more productive on the court.

By: Mentzinger (3,646 posts) - 5/28/2015 3:35:05 PM

I continue to insist Price Harry is the PG of the future and should get the ball as the 1) this season. Joe can mix in at the 1) to regulate tempo, provide control, etc., but the offense bogs down with him at the point and he's a better shooter and rebounder off the ball.
Put the Prince on the throne!

By: Mentzinger (3,646 posts) - 5/28/2015 3:45:56 PM

I continue to insist Price Harry is the PG of the future and should get the ball as the 1) this season. Joe can mix in at the 1) to regulate tempo, provide control, etc., but the offense bogs down with him at the point and he's a better shooter and rebounder off the ball.
Put the Prince on the throne!

By: THE DUDE (529 posts) - 5/28/2015 3:48:41 PM

MV, agreed about Kevin but I'd also note that ML has played his best players heavy minutes throughout his career and our deliberate offensive style and heavy use of the zone enable that (one could argue I gather its a chicken &egg) The 2014 team prior to the Kethan injury was essentially a 6 man heavy rotation (just a few mins going to JK and Mikic) Essentially, have your best players on the court as much as possible.

Mentz, 2 camps of thought on PJ's future you and MV seem to be the leading lights of one of them.  I think FQ and I would stake ground in the other camp.



By: Free Quebec (6,340 posts) - 5/28/2015 4:36:47 PM

Don't speak for me on that one.  For now, I think he is best suited to be a combo guard off the bench becuase he is a shoot first guy, but I absolutely love the way he brings energy and puts pressure on the defense off the bench. The year after next, Sina is likely to be the PG, but PJ should be an extremely effective combo guard and he has the chance to become a big time scorer as he gets stronger and more consistent - however, he and Sina will be interchangable as ball handlers and shooters and I think they could play VERY well off each other and put a lot of pressure on the defense, just like Davidson's guards did last year.

I don't entirely disagree with Mentz, I just see him as more of a combo guard at this point and think we will be better with aggression off the bench rather than starting him and Joe next to each other and benching someone like Yuta.

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 5/28/2015 5:02:47 PM

I'm not entirely sure on the PJ question. On the one hand, we can go big and long and play a lot of zone - I think the 1-3-1 would be effective with a lineup of Joe, Yuta, Pato, Cavanaugh and Larsen. On the other hand, offensively we will not have enough ball handlers especially against strong guard defensive play. So it may be a question of matchups as to the role of PJ from game to game. We may have a defined starting 5 but you may see fluctuations in minutes among PJ, JM, and YW depending on who we play.

By: The MV (4,915 posts) - 5/28/2015 5:35:48 PM

By the time 2016-17 rolls around, I would fully anticipate PJ being the starting point guard and Sina being the starting shooting guard (he is more of a shooting guard than a point guard although I do subscribe to the past points about these lines becoming more and more blurred in general ).  The exception to this is if it turns out that Jordan Roland is beyond amazing at this level.

By: THE DUDE (529 posts) - 5/28/2015 5:46:36 PM

Bo is right, that's the calculus you are balancing.  That's why having a non ball handler in the starting backcourt is a bit limiting.

I'd add the 1-3-1, a great zone for a rangy length guys team, and a terrible zone for a team with a tiny backcourt. If Pato or Yuta are as expected playing the 1 up top, you're going to have JoeMac and another little guard in the 3 formation? Those guys need to help defend the 3 with length and at same time help the down low 1 the low post/baseline. Not a great zone to play w/ small guards (or zones period). Joe because he's so strong and a great undersized rebounder can almost pull it off - Mitola? So either Alex needs to be able to play man to man D on an A10 level two guard, or be able to play in the 1-3-1 zone, two things that kept a similar player, Nick from seeing more court time for us.


Top Transfers Sitting Out Next Season (Includes Kethan Savage)


Sulaimon mention

Apologies if this has already been covered, but I haven't seen anything about it. From ESPN: He'll be able to play immediately due to the NCAA's graduate transfer rule, and Sulaimon said that he has been contacted by more than a dozen sch