By: BACCAS92 (705 posts) - 10/7/2015 12:32:23 PM

Guys we are dying to sign two star recruits.  Yuta and PJ were three stars.  Are we going down hill here? 

By: MOCO Observer (50 posts) - 10/7/2015 12:35:16 PM

BACCAS92 stop focusing on rankings. These guys can play. My own eyes have told me that.

By: BM (5,673 posts) - 10/7/2015 12:37:40 PM

Marfo was one of the top rebounders in the best AAU league in the country and one of the best prep leagues in the country.  He had offers from Pitt, Xavier, GT, KSU & Minnesota.  He's not a two star recruit.

By: BACCAS92 (705 posts) - 10/7/2015 12:39:01 PM

Ok.  Hopefully, these guys are under the radar and they break out at GW. 

By: Poster (5 posts) - 10/7/2015 12:52:55 PM

ESPN has both Marfo and Rogers as 3 star recruits.

By: Long Suffering Fan (4,106 posts) - 10/7/2015 12:57:10 PM

I am  very excited to have Darnell joint the team.  One thing I think everyone must remember however is that Darnell is not Shawnta, and it not fair to him to expect him to be his father, and it may be setting up many in the fan base for disappointment.  Shawnta was a very special player.  At 5'4", he was the Atlantic 10 player of the year (our only one?)     Shawnta was incredibly strong (with his upper body development, I always described him as a power forward in a 5' 4" body) and lightening quick (he would strip the ball on defense so quickly that it took the ball handler a couple of seconds to realize he no longer had the ball).  Further, Shawnta was recruited by some major programs (i.e. ACC).  Darnell is the type of player I think we need...a true point guard who will run an offense and disrupt on defense.  But again...lets not yet assume that this is Shawnta returning for 4 more years.

By: Goo Colonials Go (68 posts) - 10/7/2015 1:08:00 PM

Here's a rundown of the rankings for some of GW's recent recruits, current players, and a couple of guys who haven't committed (on ESPN and Verbal Commits. For VC, I used the composite score):

Darnell Rogers: ESPN 3-star, VC 2-star
Collin Smith: VC 2-star
Kevin Marfo: ESPN 3-star, VC 2-star
Arnaldo Toro: VC 2-star
Jimbo Lull: ESPN 2-star, VC 3-star
Jordan Roland: VC 2-star, ESPN 2-star
Colin Goss: VC 2.5-star, ESPN 2-star
Yuta Watanabe: ESPN 3-star, VC 3-star 
Paul Jorgenson: ESPN 3-star, VC 3-star, 
Matt Cimino: ESPN 3-star, VC 3-star 
Anthony Swan: ESPN 3-star, VC 3-star
Darian Bryant: ESPN 2-star, VC 2-star
Nick Griffin: ESPN 2-star, VC 2.5-star
Miguel Cartegena: ESPN 1-star, VC 2-star
Kethan Savage: ESPN 2-star, VC 2.3-star
Joe Mcdonald: ESPN 2-star, VC 2-star
Paris Maragkos: VC 2-star, ESPN unranked 
Patricio Garino: ESPN Unranked, VC 2-star
Kevin Larsen: ESPN Unranked, VC 2-star 
Ryan McCoy: VC 2-star 

So first thing I'll point out is none of the guys in the original core four were above a 2-star on either of the two sites I looked at. I think we all can agree they have worked out rather well for us so far. On the flip side, Cimino and Swan were both consensus 3-star recruits who looked rather lost at times last year, and clearly need some help with their games before they can be contributors on this level. 

That is all to say, the rankings are a good barometer for where we want to be recruiting, but are otherwise a bit of a crap shoot. I don't think there is a big difference between a 2-star guy and a 3-star guy. There certainly hasn't been in terms of which recent players have had a big impact on the program and which ones have not. 



By: bobo (3,178 posts) - 10/7/2015 1:19:13 PM

Seems that they key to being at least a 2 star recruit for VC is to have a pulse.

By: daveBee (10/7/2015 1:46:18 PM)

Great news for the program but where will he play. Jorgensen,Roland and don't forget Jaren Sina. It's great to see that we are getting a kid whose father was great here. But I'm not too sure this kid will play over any of these three.

By: Free Quebec (6,340 posts) - 10/7/2015 1:56:03 PM

GCG, I can't recall offhand, but didn't soome FL Hoops website have him listed as like the 10th best player in the state of Florida, or something like that?

I don't really care how many stars some crappy website gives to anyway, I think that guy is going to be a good player.

By: Goo Colonials Go (68 posts) - 10/7/2015 2:14:42 PM

FQ, I think you're talking about Collin Smith, but I'm not sure of the top-ten site. The general direction I've seen with a lot of the commentary associated with his signing and subsequent development is that he's continuing to improve, that there are still some missing pieces to his game, but that this could end up being a very, very good signing if he continues along his trajectory. 

Generally I agree with you in terms of the star rankings. I'm much more interested in what other schools are going after the recruit, and my own eye test (which means next to nothing as the last time I played organized basketball was in grade school, but I digress). What I think the list above shows is that we're landing similar-calibre prospects regardless of their ranking. I think it also shows you that ML and Co. have a good eye for finding "their guys," whether that means seeing talent where others are not, or identifying guys who can be coached up to become good players. 

That said, it'd be awesome if we were regularly competing for the can't-miss guys, and I hope we eventually get there. 

By: The MV (4,915 posts) - 10/7/2015 2:14:49 PM

Looks to me like the 2-stars show up on campus with far more of a chip on their shoulders than do the 3-stars (albeit based on a fairly small sample).

By: 2cents (32 posts) - 10/7/2015 2:44:37 PM

I agree that the rankings are mostly BS.  I think for the most part, the higher ranked players are fairly accurate, as they have been observed so often in a lot of different situations. The mid to lower ranks, especially the "2's," are more of an "Oh shit these guys are being recruited but we haven't really seen or heard of them so we'd better give them a ranking so we don't look stupid" kind of ranking. These are the 'under the radar guys' that GW has to take chances on, so we get stuck with a lot of 2's or low 3's and hope for the best.  I am really looking forward to seeing our "2's" play and lighting it up. 

By: The Dude (529 posts) - 10/7/2015 2:50:03 PM

Good Questions BACCAS.  You've made it through serious heart surgery, I'm sure you can sustain predictable slights of recruiting services.

I've documented on another thread that historically (under Hobbs, Jarvis and early ML era) the more highly ranked/coveted recruits have predictably outperformed their lesser ranked/coveted counterparts, with plenty of exceptions, but generally, they have. Without restating the evidence, I'll just note that JoeMac and Kethan were ranked 40th and 50th in the nation  at their position by ESPN despite the curious 2 star (makes you think they were 2.45 stars.) In contrast Jordan, also a 2 star is listed the 90th PG  by the same evaluator.  Kevin and Pato were playing for two of the country's absolute best HS programs and International players used to not get any ranking/stars (beginning to change, eg, Yuta 3 stars) So the star listing alone is not the greatest, I'd suggest the level of AAU team/ the HS career/who was recruiting the player are collectively at least as valuable.  In short I'd look at all the evidence, including the scouting evaluation, thx for culling that data GCG.

Marfo and Toro are exactly the blueprint guy GW should be recruiting, Kevin Huerter a smart reach, and Darian, Nick, and Collin Smith are guys you wonder about.  I hope the latter works out much better than most of the prior examples in that category.  Darnell in contrast checks at least two boxes.

How many guys who had basically none of the above boxes checked (1. A good ranking 2. A true elite AAU/HS team/super prolific HS career 3. Coveted by GW/higher schools) have we signed who nonetheless genuinely excelled at GW? 

By: Mentzinger (3,646 posts) - 10/7/2015 3:04:39 PM

Who else is recruiting a player continues to be one of the most overrated and relativistic measures, dependant on other teams' needs, overall attrition, personal connections between famnilies and coaches, rumors, AAU hijinx, pumping by the uncle, and many other factors that put a school on a kid's list. Almost meaningless, really.

By: MOCO Observer (50 posts) - 10/7/2015 3:07:36 PM

Just curious Dude, how do you know Marfo and Toro are exactly the blueprint of player GW should be recruiting? Have you seen them play? I am not challenging you (I agree) just wondering what you base that on other than what you have read about them which as many have noted can be wildly inaccurate. Also, if so what other players that fi the blueprint are we not recruiting that we should recruit?

These questions are based on the premise that we should not bootstrap subjectivity into objectivity. Just because GW is recruiting anyone does not necessarily mean they are under-ranked. It could also be that they are over-ranked (e.g. Maragkos, Griffin better than Savage etc.). That's why coaches actually go and watch players play, disregard their highlight tapes, and ask coaches what kind of work ethic and character is present. That's why there is often disagreement or different assesssments between coaches. One man's blueprint is another man's dawg. In the end, that is why we have to completely trust ML and staff to get it right. What matters is what they think not what you or I think or somebody in the cottage industry of recruiting experts (some of whom have never played or coached) - good or bad.

GW RECENT RECRUITING, Classes of 2013 2014 2015...2016

Easy fix for those Pat Andree devotees. We can leave young Pat's thread to Pat Andree: The Dude (529 posts) - 8/10/2015 7:39:09 PM Anyone else here a little concerned about the recent recruiting efforts? The 2013 class was a disaster, the 2015 cl


Top Transfers Sitting Out Next Season (Includes Kethan Savage)