By: Jj (33 posts) - 7/25/2016 10:06:09 PM

My friend in the GW school administration just told me this!  GW Athletic Director Patrick Nero was not in charge of the men's basketball program this past season.  A member of the athletic department went to GW President Knapp in September 2015 and reported that Nero was having an inappropriate relationship with a men's basketball student athlete which included daily closed door meetings and dinner at Nero's residence.  President Knapp was told of many "red flags" and possible impermissible benefits the student athlete received from Nero.  After internal conversations, Knapp ordered Nero to stay away from the student athlete and the other players and put a Senior Associate Athletic Director in charge of the basketball program.  All of this has been reported internally to senior members of the GW school administration the last 2 years. 
The Washington Post article is retaliation as reporter was directed to call certain players the person orchestrating this article told him to call in order to take the focus off the real story.   Lonergan didn't say anything alleged in the article.   All of the details of this will be exposed after the external investigation. 

By: NewGWFan (510 posts) - 7/25/2016 10:08:53 PM

If that's true, and I'm ML I'm suing the crap out of someone.

By: ziik (2,950 posts) - 7/25/2016 10:14:23 PM

If true, it is shameful shit. But, why would Knapp treat it seriously if he knew it was a sham? 

Quite a shame. 

By: The Dude (529 posts) - 7/25/2016 10:17:28 PM

Sounds like total bullshit.  Not saying it is, saying it sounds like total bullshit. ......No, check that, I'm saying it is total bullshit and if you believe that you are a damn fool, no offense.

By: Long Suffering Fan (4,106 posts) - 7/25/2016 10:25:43 PM

Wow!  

By: ziik (2,950 posts) - 7/25/2016 10:50:05 PM

Does anyone else find it bizarre that an investigation is done only as a result of an anonymous article. The school and all parties involved knew this article was coming out for quite some time. So the school initiates an investigation only after the article comes out?? So melodramatic. If they really thought things were an issue don't you think an investigation would have been done prior. Seems as if they are just doing an investigation to appear as if an effort is being made in university's behalf 

By: ziik (2,950 posts) - 7/25/2016 10:52:32 PM

My guess, the guy who posted the #5 post on this string, using my name, is Putin. Damned trouble maker!!

By: GW 69 (7/25/2016 10:53:30 PM)

Im with the Dude. What a convoluted mess of a story.The Post story 

was a plant? Yikes! Almost time to go to bed. This thread makes me

tired.

By: BC (1,645 posts) - 7/25/2016 11:03:48 PM

all the more reason to wait till the facts a known.  I do find it difficult to believe that a reliable person in the admin would tell anybody this story.

By: bobo (3,178 posts) - 7/25/2016 11:14:07 PM

Image result for soap opera

By: adclub (377 posts) - 7/25/2016 11:31:52 PM

The junkies did say they have info that will break this whole thing open but couldn't share it....

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/25/2016 11:33:07 PM

I can confirm only the second sentence of JJ's report. I cannot confirm the reason for it - it was strange - but I heard the same thing from a reliable source awhile back. Thought it had no relationship to anything that we have been discussing so didn't mention it. I have never been told the reason behind it and certainly not the story set forth in JJ's post. But this all goes to the original point. Just as the Post tried ML based on anonymous sources this post does the very same thing to PN. Sad on both accounts really. Neither ML or PN need to have reputations ruined by anonymous reports.

We are apparently in the midst of a civil war for the hearts and minds of the GW athletics and the men's basketball program. Watch your back! I continue to trust that ML will ultimately be vindicated in all of this.

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/25/2016 11:37:12 PM

Image result for pandora's box

By: The Dude (529 posts) - 7/25/2016 11:40:51 PM

Two allegations, one story, we all wish isn't true, would vastly benefit the program to be found untrue, and yet is plausibly true/partially true and wouldn't come as a giant shock (to me at least)  It was also reported in a national paper of distinction with 6 sources including 5 players and 1 former ML staff member.

the 2nd story was typed by anonymous poster  "Jj" from what he claims was told to him, reads totally implausible, made up, and a giant distraction from what is already the biggest story in GW recent history.  But man, it doesn't take much to get some people here to pounce!  In related news I have been told by a GW official tonight that GW Football is coming back in 2018 and GW will rejoin the SEC schools, Alabama here we come!! Forget the 1955 Sun Bowl, we want the SEC crown!!

By: ziik (2,950 posts) - 7/25/2016 11:48:14 PM

Righto Dude. But, why waste time here with a concocted lie by jj? The lie goes nowhere, and does not affect the Post story. It makes me pause a bit.

By: BC (1,645 posts) - 7/25/2016 11:49:43 PM

I can just see it now, a mighty crowd of 1000 at RFK to see GW football.  Is it still called that?  Well it's a change of topic.

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/25/2016 11:51:24 PM

In fairness ziik, the second sentence of jj's post is not a lie. The rest of it ... I have no idea.

By: LA Fan (1,525 posts) - 7/25/2016 11:52:40 PM

Regardless of what anyone here believes or doesn't believe, this is all becoming disastrous for the program.  This story about Nero could just be a fabrication, but still if I didn't think it could get any worse, it may just have.

By: The Dude (529 posts) - 7/25/2016 11:59:31 PM

Jj's post reminds of drunk uncle from SNL.  If you haven't watched SNL much the last few years you are 1) Wise 2) need to google that for context.

Agree Ziik, but I feel a need to call such insidious BS for what it is.

Still called RFK, I believe the DC soccer team plays there, I still miss the days you could watch the early Nats game there for 10 bucks and Miller Lite bottles were like 3 bones.  What a dump, but it beats dropping 200 on Nats tickets and 6 drinks. Bought 2 rounds of 4 beers and 2 Jack Daniels last week for some ladies and it cost 66 bucks a round! MPire the new upscale strip club has more reasonable drinking prices!! And the "Teddy" there is a a little easier on the eyes.

 

By: LA Fan (1,525 posts) - 7/26/2016 12:00:29 AM

Regardless of what anyone here believes or doesn't believe, this is all becoming disastrous for the program.  This story about Nero could just be a fabrication, but still if I didn't think it could get any worse, it may just have.

By: BACCAS92 (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 12:40:01 AM

I am so confused.  

By: Bigfan (2,829 posts) - 7/26/2016 3:52:28 AM

Holy crap! ( good headline for Post story,come to think of it). Have no idea what to think.

No idea what is true. But Bo,if it is indeed Bo, confirmed second sentence.

Did point to a bizarre Shakesperian drama. Also did note several times that Nero had a lawyer best known for sexual harassment,something that no one seemed to pick up on.

And the fact that she is quoted and her seemingly odd comment from out of nowhere.

If even a smidgen of this is true,take back what I said about the story. Way worse than a piece of shit if this is the real direction. Naivete at its best.

In comments section of the Post, someone said story was likely a Nero plant. Go back and read.

This does provide some explanation,if at all correct. ML would go ballistic,as would any coach or human being. 

No idea if any of this is true,but if it is really Bo,will take him at his word. He didn' t post original statement and if indeed him, just carefully confirmed it.

Would have gotten this story out if were ML' s people. Now that' s a good read.

Because now, IF TRUE, alleged story line reads like ML. protecting player from a predator. 

That sounds more like ML.

Unlike some,not rushing to judgment on anyone, ML or Nero.

But would wait for other shoes to drop.

Speaking of dropping, would welcome any more insight from JJ, Bo Knows or anyone else.

 Something has to explain these bizarre maneuverings that went unexplained in the story.

Keep the information coming--and soon.

By: Skittles (178 posts) - 7/26/2016 6:27:56 AM

JJ tells the truth.

By: Poster (5 posts) - 7/26/2016 6:33:16 AM

It is completely untrue. 

By: bobo (3,178 posts) - 7/26/2016 6:56:42 AM

Who are Skittles and Poster and what are their agendas?

Frankly, I don't believe either one of them.

By: Skittles (178 posts) - 7/26/2016 7:00:05 AM

I have no agenda. Was asked not to speak on this until now. I'll stake my rep on this one, and my track record here speaks for itself bobo. 

By: Poster (5 posts) - 7/26/2016 7:03:43 AM

Spreading lies such is this is reprehensible.  I can't wait for the investigation to be done and Lonergan to be GONE.

By: bballfan (7/26/2016 7:11:13 AM)

Poster, When ML is cleared and Nero is gone - will you please leave?!

By: seangw83 (73 posts) - 7/26/2016 7:15:59 AM

I have no idea what's true or untrue, but I see little to no way both PN and ML are still standing after the truth is actually uncovered.

Combined with a new University President next year, seems to be a time of great upheaval for both the Athletic Department and University. 

By: GW69 (7/26/2016 7:16:16 AM)

Could the plant be a plant? This has become increasingly absurd.There is no good news here for ML nor PN. What a cluster!! This meta--level

labyrinth of a story is off the rails. It's gone way beyond what is true,

unfortuneatly. No winners here.Lives and reputations are changed

forever no matter what the outcome.

By: Hugh Jaynus (5 posts) - 7/26/2016 7:18:39 AM

When ML is exonerated, can the Dude please leave the board? Thought his basketball arguments were bad...

By: 2cents (32 posts) - 7/26/2016 7:23:35 AM

I don't know what to make of all this. If this is true, is anyone else wondering what an "innapproptaite relationship" in this context is?  As I understand it, any type of relationship with a scholarship player where they receive benefits in any form would be deemed inappropriate...like even taking them to Taco Bell for dinner. Or is this an "inappropriate relationship" of the sexual kind? 

By: Hugh Jaynus (5 posts) - 7/26/2016 7:25:45 AM

2cents...I'm assuming the latter.

By: Thomas (1,146 posts) - 7/26/2016 7:28:19 AM

bobo, I kind of believe both Skittles and Poster, as well as both Pro-Lonergan versus Anti-Lonergan sides because ML's personality indicates to me that elements to both sides of the story can be true. The Lonergan camp/supporters are saying ML is a saint and has done nothing wrong, and there are 1 or 2 individuals who are trying to ruin him. The anti-Lonergan group are describing him as an Out-Of-Control Maniac!! It's obvious from ML's "animated" sideline antics and 'Straight No Chaser' way of communicating to people that he's very capable of vile insults to or about his players, his coaches and/or his A.D.

On the other hand, we've had several of his current and former GW players come to his defense, along with 2 former Maryland players(Will Bowers and Nik Caner-Medley) who only played under ML when he was an assistant for one year in 2006(10 YEARS AGO!!!). I'm particulary impressed that the Maryland players would come to his defense because they were only around ML for 1 season, and thought so highly of him that they decided to speak up publicly in his defense.

By: Bballfan (7/26/2016 7:29:16 AM)

Let me spell it out for you - I would say anytime the AD meets one on one with a player repeatedly, having dinner only with said player, having said player at his private residence - unless they are related, that is inappropriate!!!  The coach does not only not meet with players alone, but they only go as a team or group.  This is beyond creepy!

By: Remember Fort Myer (14 posts) - 7/26/2016 7:32:58 AM

"Some modern historians question the reliability of ancient sources when reporting on Nero's tyrannical acts."  from Wikipedia

By: Skittles (178 posts) - 7/26/2016 7:36:13 AM

+1 bballfan 

By: Maine Colonial (487 posts) - 7/26/2016 7:36:29 AM

Last year was the best year in the history of GW Athletics and this year was shaping up to be even better...until this mess. Unbelievably sad. Both sides have to share some blame for it becoming such a public debacle. Then again it pales compared to the presidential election. 

By: bballfan (7/26/2016 7:46:46 AM)

Funny how the results of the investigation last year did not make the Post - maybe ML, or those who knew, did not feel the need to disgrace PN in the public.  Makes you wonder why this story even came out.  Any reporter worth his weight would have done a more thorough job finding out facts and motives.  For example - why is there tension between coach and AD?  Why was an associate AD now traveling with the team when there was nothing found against ML?  The school is never going to comment on personnel actions - get real. 

By: Mike K (1,177 posts) - 7/26/2016 7:48:18 AM

I will quote what went through many of our mides when we read this: "Holy Fuck!"

As far as Skittles, he has had accurate info in the past.

By: Keith Greene (151 posts) - 7/26/2016 7:53:11 AM

This whole story is analogous to a high school student accusing a teacher of sexual abuse.  The reputation of said teacher is damaged - maybe even irreperably - by such an allegation, whether true or untrue.

I have no doubt that Coach Lonergan is tough on the players; whether he is abusive is another question.  Enough players have spoken out in his support to cast doubt on the allegations of abuse.  Where are the graduated players claiming that Lonergan was abusive?  They have nothing to lose by coming forward, just as Garino, Armwood and Creek have nothing to gain.

The allegation makes front-page news.  When the teacher gets exonerated, it's on page 56!

I refuse to pass judgment on either Coach Lonergan or AD Nero until the facts are out.  It's not right.

By: Keith Greene (151 posts) - 7/26/2016 7:53:12 AM

This whole story is analogous to a high school student accusing a teacher of sexual abuse.  The reputation of said teacher is damaged - maybe even irreperably - by such an allegation, whether true or untrue.

I have no doubt that Coach Lonergan is tough on the players; whether he is abusive is another question.  Enough players have spoken out in his support to cast doubt on the allegations of abuse.  Where are the graduated players claiming that Lonergan was abusive?  They have nothing to lose by coming forward, just as Garino, Armwood and Creek have nothing to gain.

The allegation makes front-page news.  When the teacher gets exonerated, it's on page 56!

I refuse to pass judgment on either Coach Lonergan or AD Nero until the facts are out.  It's not right.

By: Skittles (178 posts) - 7/26/2016 8:07:43 AM

Poster can join The Dude in getting the hell out of here once Lonergan is cleared. 

By: Long Suffering Fan (4,106 posts) - 7/26/2016 8:36:40 AM

Lets just say that for selfish reasons, that if there is one guilty party and one who has to go, I am hoping it would be the AD rather than the coach.  And I am saying this not personally knowing either the coach or the AD, but the fact is the coach is the face of the team.  At least in the short term, his departure would be far more damaging to the team, which is really all I (and I suspect many others on this board) care about.   It would cause far more upheaval and be far more disruptive recruiting wise, attendance wise and general overall image.  The AD is a very important job...but by in large he they are nameless suits.   Replace one with the other and most of the world would not notice.   Now, having said that, I may somewhat disagree with bball fan's statement that "anytime the AD meets one on one with a player repeatedly, having dinner only with said player, having said player at his private residence - unless they are related, that is inappropriate!!!"  It certainly may raise eyebrows, but there could also be innocent explanations (i.e. the player was having a family or personal crisis and needed an adult to reach out to).   And just like we should not bash the coach on what is being written and give him the benefit of the "innocent until proven guilty presumption", the same shouild hold true for the AD, as much as I may want the blame to fall on him rather than the coach.

By: Long Suffering Fan (4,106 posts) - 7/26/2016 8:36:41 AM

Lets just say that for selfish reasons, that if there is one guilty party and one who has to go, I am hoping it would be the AD rather than the coach.  And I am saying this not personally knowing either the coach or the AD, but the fact is the coach is the face of the team.  At least in the short term, his departure would be far more damaging to the team, which is really all I (and I suspect many others on this board) care about.   It would cause far more upheaval and be far more disruptive recruiting wise, attendance wise and general overall image.  The AD is a very important job...but by in large he they are nameless suits.   Replace one with the other and most of the world would not notice.   Now, having said that, I may somewhat disagree with bball fan's statement that "anytime the AD meets one on one with a player repeatedly, having dinner only with said player, having said player at his private residence - unless they are related, that is inappropriate!!!"  It certainly may raise eyebrows, but there could also be innocent explanations (i.e. the player was having a family or personal crisis and needed an adult to reach out to).   And just like we should not bash the coach on what is being written and give him the benefit of the "innocent until proven guilty presumption", the same shouild hold true for the AD, as much as I may want the blame to fall on him rather than the coach.

By: Hoopsfan78 (7/26/2016 8:37:01 AM)

JJ/Skittles,

I know for a fact that there is no truth to this story at all.  In fact Nero was as involved as ever with the Basketball team and all other teams. 

1.) if this story were true and the university didn't dismiss Nero for cause on the spot they are open to lawsuits and potentially more

2.) Why would the university publically announce an investigation of ML by outside law firm as well as conducting a review after the 2014-2015 season.

3.) Mo Creek on the radio defended Nero (i forget the first part of what he answered, but second part was "i stop by and say hi when i'm back visiting"

4.) players on the team have a very good relationship with Nero and frequently stop by his office for random talks.

5.) patrick has hosted many team events and fundraisers that included ML (as well as some that ML chose not to attend)

In my opinion this is someone very close to mike planting a story to try and divert attention.  This is truely a new low for all involved.

By: Skittles (178 posts) - 7/26/2016 8:52:34 AM

I only post as skittles, for the hundredth time. Unlike some of the posters on this board I don't suffer from multiple personality disorder or stupidity. A lot of your points are misleading and Creek wasn't there for JJs version of events. I don't need to verify or argue any further the truth will come out soon enough. 

By: hungryhungrytrachtenberg (7/26/2016 8:54:39 AM)

Even if you have inside information, that information may only be part of the story or one individual's side of the story.  

I strongly encourage everyone to let the university and independent investigation conclude before rushing to any judgements or posting any potentially misleading information which could be incredibly harmful to the careers of hardworking staff in our athletics department.  

Depending on the outcomes of this investigation, I hope Herve considers deleting some of these threads that contain some wild accusations that could be very harmful in the years to come.  

By: hoopfan78 (7/26/2016 8:57:43 AM)

skittles i wasn't accusing you of being jj i was addressing both of you. 

Unfortunately i don't believe the average fan will ever know the "trueth", but i stand by my opinion that ML will not be on the plane to Japan.

sounds like we both have our sources that we trust heavily.  it comes down to which side of the story is true.  my opinion is that the members of the team last year will provide enough information to verify information. 

The part that JJ is dead wrong about however is Nero's involvement in the program over the past year. 

By: Hugh Jaynus (5 posts) - 7/26/2016 9:00:56 AM

 Herve needs to delete some anonymous accusations from some keyboard warriors on a blog with a population of 18 in case the Washington Post wants to quote Ziik or Long Suffering Fan in a professionally written article...

By: NewGWFan (510 posts) - 7/26/2016 9:04:20 AM

 

This story would jive with everything we have heard out of the ML camp. The junkies alluded to it, along with Feinstein, ML friends and family.  Lots of references to something happening behind the  senses that they can't disclose.  This would make a whole lot of sense as to why ML can't come forward or his associates and explain what's going on.  Would love to hear Patrick Nero side of things.  The way in which Feinstein explained that the article ended up at the post gives me great concern and makes me think something fishy is in play.  They did not take the story to the GW beat writers and did not present both sides of the story.

I think PN and the player went to the Post with the story. 

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 9:04:22 AM

Skittles has had a solid track record here. I am now hearing the same thing from presumably someone other than Skittles. Can't vouch for it entirely except for the part about PN not overseeing men's basketball. And I have to tell you that alone is so atypical in athletic departments as to at least raise questions as to why. 

By: Still Here (7/26/2016 9:07:45 AM)

Hoopsfan, you just said you know for a fact then made a list of points based on conjecture. Additionally one person made the point that the kid could have been having a hard time (maybe with lonergan) and kept asking to meet with Nero. Doesn't make it appropriate, but it doesn't sound like a fireable offense. Either way I find this all incredibly believable. I said before the article read like it was being framed just so by someone (maybe Nero based on the strange weigh in from his lawyer against lonergan) and this makes it seem like motive has been established. I will say though, as many people have noted, none of this means the lonergan story has to be false. Both stories can easily be true.

 

 

 

 

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 9:17:41 AM

Another thing the Post story got wrong I am told was why Ed Scott was so heavily involved. It wasn't because of ML's behavior, it was because of the reason in the second sentence of JJ's post. Ed Scott was there to oversee men's basketball. As to why, well other than JJ's post, I have no explanation. We will all find out soon the truth of all matters asserted but until then, unlike JJ, at least Skittles has a track record here. 

By: Tk (258 posts) - 7/26/2016 9:19:43 AM

i think it's a bit from column a, a bit from column b. Nero's been watching too much house of cards 

By: JJ (33 posts) - 7/26/2016 9:35:08 AM

To everyone. I am my own person and dont have any other names on this site. I rarely post or read periodically. I did post information last night as I have come to understand  that some part of the story was not told in the public. I totally agree that we need to be patient and let the external investigation occur and understand the results. This will take time. Like with any corporation, the university has documented all of this. They are not surprised by any of this. The external review must be performed legally as the school's reputation, careers and controls of the university need to be reviewed. If the school was not aware of this, they would have started an internal investigation first. The reason its an external investigation has a purpose which you can figure out on your own.  Understand why some may question my post because people dont have all the facts. But my question when I read the Post story, if everyone is anonymous and everyone involved ...looks like 6 people total...are not involved with the program anymore, who gains by this story? 

By: NJ Colonial (1,980 posts) - 7/26/2016 9:46:05 AM

Nice to see a grown-up post, Keith Greene, I agree with you.  Everybody needs to calm down.  If you really care about GW and the hoops program, stop jumping to conclusions.

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 9:50:41 AM

Additional info (which is admittedly cannot be verified) which may support another part of this being a hatchet job and causing some confusion. It may be that current player alleged in the Post Story is now a former player and was at the time of publication (i.e. he was a current player at part of the timeframe discussed). Supposedly the writer has been working on this article for some time. If this is so, this is some really disingenuous stuff on the part of the Post labelling him now a current player.

By: JJ (33 posts) - 7/26/2016 9:50:55 AM

To everyone. I am my own person and dont have any other names on this site. I rarely post or read periodically. I did post information last night as I have come to understand  that some part of the story was not told in the public. I totally agree that we need to be patient and let the external investigation occur and understand the results. This will take time. Like with any corporation, the university has documented all of this. They are not surprised by any of this. The external review must be performed legally as the school's reputation, careers and controls of the university need to be reviewed. If the school was not aware of this, they would have started an internal investigation first. The reason its an external investigation has a purpose which you can figure out on your own.  Understand why some may question my post because people dont have all the facts. But my question when I read the Post story, if everyone is anonymous and everyone involved ...looks like 6 people total...are not involved with the program anymore, who gains by this story? 

By: Rich Maier (17 posts) - 7/26/2016 9:54:32 AM

hoopfan78 brings up a very god point. If as JJ's friend (not JJ) said Nero was having an inappropriate relationship with a player, why didnt GW fire Nero? Hoopfan78 is correct IMO that would open up a potential lawsuit. If that comes about the University is in big trouble.

I have no idea who is telling the truth.

By: Rich Maier (17 posts) - 7/26/2016 9:56:21 AM

that's good point not god point.

By: GW69 (7/26/2016 10:03:05 AM)

What is "real" is  subjective. What is "true" is objective. Right now 

all we have is what's real. Maybe we will find out what's true or 

maybe not.

By: hoopfan78 (7/26/2016 10:04:15 AM)

not trying to act as defense attorney or be defensive.  but what exactly does "in charge the basketball team" mean?  the AD is not in charge of any team.  The AD travelled with the team to almost every game, including for the thanksgiving tournament in NYC.  I would think if you were told to "stay away" you would not be traveling with the team to tournaments.

Also, why would ML give the AD practice tapes (leading to the alleged comment) if the AD wasn't "in charge" of the team.

The statement from the school states “The George Washington University is undertaking a Title IX review of allegations against men’s basketball coach Mike Lonergan,” I would think if the University had this information about the AD they would have used a more vague statement, instead of using ML's name.

 

By: Slayer (7/26/2016 10:07:22 AM)

Because the tapes comment was completely made up.

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 10:08:03 AM

I don't know for sure Rich but maybe the University suspected but could not prove that something inappropriate was occurring. Maybe nothing was actually happening but it looked bad. So they took remedial steps to prevent the appearance of impropriety to make sure they did not get sued. The lawyer in me thinks that's a possibility. 

By: Free Quebec (6,340 posts) - 7/26/2016 10:09:40 AM

Rich,

That would depend on what the school found "inappropriate" to mean. If there was no evidence the relationship was sexual - just that he was meeting with a player a lot and having him over for dinner -  you could easily see the school saying to Nero, ok, you are creating the appearance of something untoward so we're going to tell you not to have unsupervised contact with this player or other players. 

I don't think there's any question that if they could prove there was a sexual relationship, he would have been fired, which leads me to believe that there were only accusations and no proof.  But note that JJ's (anonymous) accusation suggests they are looking into improper benefits which could be a tell that they can't prove the firable offense of a sexual relationship with a student in his charge.

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 10:17:32 AM

hoopfan - there is something in between staying away which is an impossible standard for an AD and nothing especially where the facts might not be clear. You could have restricted private interactions (time, place, others present, etc.). None of us would know since no one was going to make this public. I know in one sexual harrassment case where it could not be determined definitively but there was an appearance of impropriety that a person was put on a plan where they were not allowed to have any private closed door meetings with any female staffers without another person being present.

By: InTheKnow (7/26/2016 10:18:12 AM)

Both sides of the story are true the post and what JJ writes. That's where it all started from Nero having the player over ML getting pissed at that and Nero getting offended at MLs accusations of Nero having a relationship. A situation that completely spiraled out of control instead of acting like men and figuring it out, they both decided to go at each other to get each other fired. However Ed Scott was placed with the team to monitor MLs behavior 

By: Rich Maier (17 posts) - 7/26/2016 10:31:24 AM

Bo and FQ, you should address JJ's friend. He is the one who said Nero had an inappropriate relationship not me. Let's have another thread in the meaning of inappropriate. Let the lawyers figure it out.

By: The Dude (529 posts) - 7/26/2016 10:32:21 AM

Let me let you in a little secret, there are people who here post a lot and then they use alternate names to make shit up and firebomb the people who do post here a lot whose thoughts they don't like.

This story is so obviously patently false that to give it more oxygen is silly, as several have posted, if the story were true Nero would have been fired immediately.  Get a clue, and stop giving the firebombers alternate poster name Bullshitters an ounce of credibility.  

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 10:36:11 AM

IntheKnow - by whose authority was Ed Scott placed on team to monitor ML's behavior? The University gave ML a letter saying no further action was required in September 2015. And if JJ's post is true, PN was removed from overseeing men's basketball for 2015-16. Something does not add up. My information is that Ed Scott was assigned to oversee men's basketball for the athletic department not solely related to ML but rather to take over PN's responsibilities. 

By: Tuna Can (1,661 posts) - 7/26/2016 10:39:31 AM

Why do I think that this drama is going to replace Swamp People on the History Channel.

"CHOOT IT, CHOOT IT!!!!"

By: The MV (4,915 posts) - 7/26/2016 10:40:03 AM

To those of you who frequently get disgusted by the soap opera type atmosphere that sometimes takes place on this board....welcome.  This is sadly worse than anything you've ever read here.

Starting with Bo today.  Not a big deal in the overall scheme of things, but your posts on this matter have been perplexing.  First, you confirm your prior knowledge of the fact that Nero did not oversee the basketball team this past season, but failed to mention that here until now because you felt that this point had nothing to do with what we've been discussing?  Really?  The athletic director of a school without football, making men's basketball the dominant revenue producing sport for his department, has nothing to do with this particular sport, and you perceive this to have nothing to do with allegations that Lonergan made homophobic remarks at the athletic director's expense?  I obviously can't speak for you or determine your thought process, but it would seem highly improbable not to make some type of connection between these two things.  You do then go on to say that the Nero arrangement this past season was so atypical for any athletic department.  Yes.  Exactly.  All the more reason why this piece of information could have been revealed earlier (not that this was your obligation.  However, if you were The Washington Post, you might have found this nugget out in your research and reported it, unless you opted not to include it since it didn't quite fit the agenda.)

Bigfan...your point about the Debra Katz (sexual harassment attorney) quote was astute at the time and perhaps even far more germane now.  When I first read the article, I raised an eyebrow wondering why this quote was even included.  Despite claims over inappropriate remarks, it seemed a bit out of left field.

To everyone here or didn't or still hasn't gotten the message, I'll offer this.  Am proud of the folks who have kept their heads, realized that there could be facts or explanations that we have not seen or heard yet which might rectify much about what we've read in the Post.  Am proud of those who understand what "innocent until proven guilty" truly means, forget about in a courtroom, but in life.  And how failing to abide by this notion can in fact cause serious and needless damage to one's reputation and livelihood.

Am not at all proud of the folks who jumped to conclusions.  Who reacted without knowing the full story.  Who weighed in on who GW's next coach should be.  Who claimed that Lonergan has been damaged beyond repair.  Who have predicted that he'll never be able to effectively recruit again (or recruit at all if we are to believe some of you).  Who stated that there was no possible way that Mike could overcome this.

Has Lonergan now been exonerated?  Hardly.  But here's where we've gone from:

a) The Post article which resulted in critics (those with and some without agendas) wanting to tar and feather the coach.  Leaving even his defenders to acknowledge that this sounds very bad, and that Mike is a volatile guy who is capable of crossing lines, but that we need to let this play out.

b) Traces of support with some subtly indicating that a smoking gun might exist but can't be discussed yet.  OK, some hope for Lonergan perhaps but not a whole lot to go on yet.

c) MartiniBoy's account about the transgender insult being directed towards a player wearing bright pink sneakers.  Much more hope for Lonergan as context makes its way into the picture.

d) An allegation of sexual activity/inappropriate behavior between Nero and a player, along with an acknowledgement that Nero did not oversee the basketball team this past season, opens up the largest can of worms yet. 

The point of course is that there are at least two sides to every story.  The Post reported just one side and many here chose to believe it verbatim because how could all of these sources corroborate in this manner and have it not be the case?  And of course, even if the players and former staffer did not lie per se, we now know that there are possible circumstances and contextual situations which could readily explain why something might not be quite as it seems.

Again, I am happy to watch how things play out before drawing any conclusions, and would urge everyone here to do the same.  If that's just too hard for you to do, you may want to revert to this formula instead:

See which way The Dude is going and take the other side.

Bonus:  If Skittles has taken the opposite side of The Dude, double down on your wager.

 

By: InTheKnow (7/26/2016 10:41:17 AM)

he was placed there to oversee MLs behavior after people complained about him. Exactly why he's at every road game and sits right by the bench. 

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 10:44:35 AM

Dude, you are going to be wrong on this at least in part. JJ's second sentence is accurate from everything I have heard. The only debate is as to why this unprecedented action was taken and by whom? Skittles and JJ have told you why and by whom. We will see if their info is correct. Given Skittles track record here I would be very shocked if he/she was wrong.

By: hoopsfan78 (7/26/2016 10:49:39 AM)

The MV,

just one note, Debra Katz is not a defense attorney:

http://www.kmblegal.com/attorneys-and-staff/debra-katz

'"I am deeply committed to protecting the rights of individuals who have been victimized by discrimination, sexual harassment or have been mistreated because they have done the right thing — whether it be reporting issues affecting the public health and safety or objecting to illegal business practices. These individuals deserve tough, tenacious, and principled advocates. I work hard every day to be just that."

By: Dootie Bubble (1,850 posts) - 7/26/2016 10:56:25 AM

Does anyone believe Nero is shtupping one of the players?  I for one find that a pretty hard thing to believe.  Until there's a single credible allegation or shred of evidence it sounds like the kind of accusation a single guy in a position of power gets regularly.   

By: Dootie Bubble (1,850 posts) - 7/26/2016 10:58:17 AM

If Patrick Nero didn't oversee the men's team directly this season I've got another hypothesis. ML was under investigation. Threw PN under the bus. University created some distance during monitoring to see if things got better.

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 11:09:31 AM

MV, I knew that PN did not oversee men's basketball and that was atypical but why would I have given it another thought until JJ's post? I thought it was due to a division of responsibilities and that he ultimately oversaw the whole department but, unlike past ADs, was not going to be involved with men's basketball on a day to day basis, meaning this was an operational decision. I was with both PN and ML in New York in April (NIT) and saw no signs of any animosity between the two. And neither man cared to share that with me if there was such animosity probably because each knows that I know the other. The Post article was solely about ML's conduct and did not mention anything related to PN other than the comments allegedly made. I guess I was so focused on the Post's hatchet job on ML that I never thought to think about the mirror image of the story.

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 11:13:43 AM

Just to clarify the above post - by hatchet job I meant that the PN statements attributed to ML were not in fact said because they seemed to be so outrageous on their face. 

By: The Dude (529 posts) - 7/26/2016 11:39:02 AM

MV, you've taken the other side of nearly every prediction/assessment I've taken and been wrong on all of them on just about every thing I've typed here since I joined the board.  Otherwise, your post is pretty good, at least the part where you stick to clear headed analysis and stay clear of the personal mud slinging you are oddly so fond of yet seem to denounce!

Otherwise, I think on this false Nero story, I've typed my last sentence, its plain utter madeup nonsense until it comes from somewhere else than an agenda driven alternate poster name.  Sorry, I do put a little more stock in the WaPo than Jj, a little more stock in 6 GW program sources over an anonymous poster name/s.  As for Bo, there does seem be a pattern on the board of a big story and breaking and then after the fact you claim to have had previous knowledge of it to puff your Insider Bona Fides.   This isn't meant personally to anyone here, I haven't seen one example of a truly big scoop or any proof at all we have an insider, despite a few who claim that to be so.

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 11:46:25 AM

I don't know what previous knowledge you are referring to Dude. I had no previous knowledge that this story was about to break, that ML was alleged to have said these things or that PN was previously accused of having an inappropriate relationship. I read the Post story just like you did. I had previous knowledge that PN was not overseeing men's basketball but thought it was for operational reasons. As I just explained above, why would that have had any relevancy here before now? 

However, unlike you, what I did do after the story broke was to start checking in with various University sources not named ML or PN to try and discern what the truth of this was instead of just pontificating about air.

By: Danjsport (1,195 posts) - 7/26/2016 12:07:26 PM

Did I miss something?  Did this story "break" or was it just posted on this message  board?  I'm not saying it's not true (I don't have any idea).  I'm just saying if we were criticizing the washington post for printing a "hatchet job" of a story because it was based on anonymous sources, are we to give this story immediate credence?

I don't know what truth there is to anything.  I'm disapointed that all of this is now out there a bout the school I went to for two men who, at least from the outside, appeared to  be good men that were achievng good things for GW.  To the extent that this story is true, I'm concerned.  I'm not quite sure what an "inappropriate relationship" means.  Was it dinner and visits thats houldn't have occured?  Was it sexual in nature?  Somewhere in between?  At minimum, it seems if a student was getting benefits, that could be an NCAA problem.  At maximum, there are lots of moral and ethical concerns (not to mention potential legal ones).  

I'm just sad.  

By: The Dude (529 posts) - 7/26/2016 12:10:58 PM

No, the answer to that is no.  Hasn't broken, just made up on anonymous niche message board.  I should take this moment to dispell our SEC 2018 Football GW program rumor as well, that also hasn't broken, so to speak

By: Remember Fort Myer (14 posts) - 7/26/2016 12:27:39 PM

"As Senior Associate Athletics Director at GW, Ed Scott serves as the sport administrator for men's basketball and women's lacrosse, while overseeing NCAA compliance, educational services, community and career services, student-athlete discipline and welfare, along with diversity and inclusion efforts."

Above is from the GW Athletics Staff Directory, on its website.  

Could not believe the size of the staff.  Is the entire administration at GW so bloated?  Is this why tuition is so high?

By: Still Here (7/26/2016 12:28:27 PM)

Strange, you don't trust anonymous sources anymore?

By: GW69 (7/26/2016 12:30:00 PM)

I'm not working today---so I'm getting a chance to read all the posts.

The only thing I've gleaned is that we don't have sufficient  info

to make sense of all this.Psychotic musing---"Where have all the

flowers gone".

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 12:33:18 PM

well danjsport - if we knew or had all the answers I doubt there would be almost 600 posts on this subject. I have parts of the story posted here but have not as of yet been able to check all the boxes. It is not patently false as Dude claims but also not completely confirmed. That is all.

By: Danjsport (1,195 posts) - 7/26/2016 12:53:25 PM

I just don't get why we're on here "smearing" one of our own (Nero) while bashing the post for "smearing" Lonergan. 

Maybe this is entirely true or partially true (or "half-lies" as skittles put it when the shoe was on the other foot).  Maybe this is a leak by the Lonergan side to take the heat off of him.  Maybe it's both.  But the fact of the matter, at least for me, is that I don't like seeing the program I root for dragged through the mud.  If either (or both) of these stories (Lonergan and Nero) are true, I think it's time to start over.  

If the Nero story is true, I'm not sure why he is still around, nor am I sure why the school hasn't reported violations to the NCAA.  But while not opining as to the truth of the story, I'm inclined to at least wish the person posting the story would attach a name to it--at least Kilgore did.

By: The Dude (529 posts) - 7/26/2016 1:09:25 PM

How to tell a real opinion or thought from BS agenda nonsense:

1) anyone who keeps claiming the WaPo story is anonymously sourced fall into the latter.

Its been repeatedly noted by many, that the 6 players/coach sources were not anonymous of course to WaPo, just at this juncture unknown to us.  

Contrast that with "Jj" of the gwhoops.com website.  Pretty easy to see what's going on here, an ML fan wants to distract you, that's all.

Might be an early day to hit the bottle! Surely the bulk of the fan base understands the distinction, frankly I think everyone does, but agenda driven poster or 2 wants to muddy the waters.  In the words of the Talking Heads, "same as it ever was"

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 1:36:14 PM

Dude ummm the Post article was and is anonymously sourced the people who matter - that is GW, its faculty, staff, students - unless you can tell us right now who spoke to the Post. (I swear the Dude can't be this dumb so he must say shit for effect). Sources are almost always known to the writer otherwise they wouldn't write the article. Does the Dude seriously think you can send an anonymous email to the Post and have an article written?

And of course the king of agendas is objecting to others perceived agendas ... pretty rich.

By: ziik (2,950 posts) - 7/26/2016 1:47:38 PM

This story is sickening. If it shows anything, it is that issues, no matter what they are, need immediate resolution. 

By: ziik (2,950 posts) - 7/26/2016 1:49:09 PM

And: has this "new information"appeared anywhere else? 

I sure would like ML to stay, and be exonerated. But, all this stuff makes it hard.

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 1:54:56 PM

danjsport - I have been careful not to say anything that I don't have reason to believe to be true. This, far I have stated that the two things I was told was that Nero was not overseeing men's basketball and Ed Scott was not there to monitor ML but rather to take over PN's functions. How or why this came to be is the question. 

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 1:58:12 PM

ziik where else would you like it to appear? You do realize GW is a private institution with no obligation to make personnel records public? Undoubtedly, the Post did not ask about this aspect of the story because it had convinced itself it had the goods on ML.. So how or where would it appear assuming for the moment it is true?

By: Poster (5 posts) - 7/26/2016 2:03:21 PM

If there were a shred of truth to this Nero would have been long gone. Good try Mike & Co.

By: hoopfan78 (7/26/2016 2:13:25 PM)

I'm not sure that this will change anyone's mind in either direction, but interesting interview with Adam Kilgore on a Baltimore radio station.  (starts at 2:00 min mark

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2016/07/26/adam-kilgore-of-the-washington-post-on-the-situation-with-mike-lonergan-and-allegations-of-verbal-abuse/

By: Bballfan (7/26/2016 2:14:34 PM)

Hoopsfan78 - as for as your statement - "I know for a fact that there is no truth to this story at all.  In fact Nero was as involved as ever with the Basketball team and all other teams, you are wrong." 

You obviously do not know, since PN did not travel with the team at all this season.  He went to games and tournaments on his own, not with the team.  The difference between past years and this one was significant - so check your facts!

By: bballfan (7/26/2016 2:19:20 PM)

Poster you are an idiot - this is not high school.  The player is not underage.  Does every professor who has a relationship with an adult college student get fired?  We would need to hire a lot more staff.....

By: The MV (4,915 posts) - 7/26/2016 2:37:48 PM

Dude, it is you who fails to understand distinctions.  Neither the WaPo story or JJ's account have been proven as facts.  You are inclined to believe the Post story because several people are presumably involved in corroborating it and the Post published it.  Neither makes the story definitively true.  JJ'story has only appeared here and as of now, it also can't be considered factual. it also can't be definitively determined to have been "made up" either. People are innocent until proven guilty.  Neither ML nor PN have been proven guilty yet.

By: ziik. (7/26/2016 2:39:53 PM)

Bo-If that story about the AD is deemed credible, well, the entire matter is different. Hell, GW starts looking like a minor league PennState, if the player is underage. (17). 

My guess,there are soap opera-worthy plots in  a lot of programs. SO far, the GW story looks uncontrollable. I hope I am wrong, and maybe I am, cause I am relying totally on hearsay.

 

I may unplug for a while. My head is struggling

By: LA Fan (1,525 posts) - 7/26/2016 2:54:50 PM

I don't think anyone on the basketball team is under 18.  So that hopefully isn't an issue.  But still, I happened to think about Penn State too.  

What happened?  And was there a cover-up?  That's what the attorney needs to find out.  Will we see a larger house-cleaning at GW because of this?

By: Bigfan (2,829 posts) - 7/26/2016 3:13:30 PM

Since this stupid story broke, I have been screaming about context and pointing to Debra Katz.

Here's the deal: I read the Post every day. Just a few days before the story and all the time, she is quoted in sexual harassment cases, like Roger Ailes. She is known in this field. Try a search of your own paper, Adam, if you don't read it.

Doesn't anyone find it odd that this weird quote was stuck in the middle of a story about Lonergan? Since it defends Nero, but the story is about Lonergan's ALLEGED shortcomings.. Did any editors read the article or the great Adam Kilgore read it back to himself? More on his bias in radio interview thread.

Like many here, was fine with both ML and Nero before this shitstorm.

Will say it again: the problem with this is there's no fucking CONTEXT in the article. No explanation for the transgender quote, although our own MartinBoy was able to come up with one.

 So we have been trying to nail jello to the wall. When you deal with a man's livelihood (now two men's livelihoods if they have the TRIGGER WARNING balls to address this issues, as well.

  Interesting thing mentioned by Bo is that the current player may be a former one. Can think of the perfect case. From what I have heard about journalists' roles, remembering to update things like this is a sacred responsibility (along with not writing a half-ass article posed as an investigative piece).

The reason to believe some form of this latest allegation is that it fits in the context. Yes, TRIGGER WARNING, can see ML or a number of us or anyone who is not in their 20s, saying sarcastically that someone is jerking off over tapes. That's all one could see.

Yes, ML is a tough coach. News flash.

But why would he say, if he did which has been denied by Bo and others, CAN'T BELIEVE I AM EVEN TYPING THIS, that Nero wanted to have sex with a player. Even if true, bad joke in PC era, certainly worse depending on Nero's personal life, and makes no sense.

But now, we have CONTEXT. Could be wrong context, but we have to fill in the blanks left in this Post piece of crap.

Not saying any of this is true, but it fits the alleged behavior and bad blood. Speaking of which, how the hell did the story not devote a chunk of the huge piece to the bad blood between Nero and ML and why. There are legitimate and normal reasons, also, as opposed to this horrible soap opera.

Remember what I posted about things and Washington and life being a gray area. Another thing, the article naively ignored. Sounds like both ML and Nero are going at each other and as someone here hypthesized it spun out of control.

All the allegations on both sides may be hyped on this.

The Post, naively bit into one side. Some point to Nero for furthering the agenda. Now, we are getting the other side. Like Jack Nicholson's character: "You want the truth. You can't handle the truth."

The truth may be in the middle. Neither as shocking or revelatory as the Post want us to believe with Lonergan, nor clear-cut with Nero.

Interestingly, Nero defenders or anti-Lonergan types here seem to confirm some type of relationship between Nero and a player. No reason to leap to any conclusions about that, but one can see how this starts the whole madness. Again, may be a gray area, with nothing actionable on both sides.

That's the thing. Could be something, with some kernels of reality on both sides that spiraled out of control, as a recent poster hypothesized.

Whole thing makes us sick to our collective stomachs. Because to put it delicately: we're fucked. This whole thing is out in the open, but in a form that raises more questions that answers.

Difference between posting anonymously here and posting rumors here is that this is an anonymous message board frequented regularly by a limited number of people. It is not a once-celebrated newspaper that is the major media outlet in the area. You don't see Sports Illustrated, Yahoo, wire services and media all over the world, quoting GWhoops.com

Though they should. Because we may, or may not have broken another part of this story.

The orginal article has left us like mushrooms: being kept in the dark and fed shit.

Everyone on both sides, please keep the information coming.

We are the ones who really care about this, apart from the parties and their families.  And we need CONTEXT and explanation for this bizarre string of events.

Please keep the info. coming.

By: Poster (5 posts) - 7/26/2016 3:21:07 PM

I have heard the same thing from numerous reliable sources.  Nero needs to be fired asap, but unfortunately he is playing the 'gay' card.  They can't touch him and we are stuck with him!  I wonder who he is going to take down next!??!  This is at least his fourth victim (the other three were not in the media because they left quietly), but look to see who he chased out of the athletic department.  They were all good people and wonderful representatives of our University. 

By: Skittles (178 posts) - 7/26/2016 3:31:33 PM

Good post Bigfan

By: RUSerious (7/26/2016 3:36:11 PM)

All I can say is that Lonergan and his "supporters" must be feeling pretty desperate to come up with this low-life sleezeball "story". The real truth will be out soon enough.  

By: Skittles (178 posts) - 7/26/2016 3:40:43 PM

oh it will RUSerious :) just not the "truth" you were hoping the post would be able to spot out without the real story coming out. Sorry to burst your bubble. Stay tuned my friend! 

Great Publicity!

GW basketball players report coachs verbal and emotional abuse; many fled school

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